<p>I would like some learned advice from those with recent experience or knowledge about gaining acceptance into a rigorous PHD science program . Son will be applying to graduate school in the future. The question is when is the optimum time? I read somewhere on CC [ perhaps the graduate forum] that science Graduate programs like their PHD candidates "freshly minted" and want them to start right in after UG. I'm wondering if taking a year off to do Peace Corps or some other sort of volunteer program would make him a "less desirable" candidate to a Science PHD program?</p>
<p>I think it’s a great idea to take time off after undergrad, and at least for biology programs, taking time off is seen as an asset, not a problem. About half of my entering PhD class had taken a year or a few between undergrad and grad school. I was one of those who went straight to grad school, and I think I and many of my straight-from-undergrad colleagues might have been better served by taking time off. Grad school is tough, and it’s best to come in happy and refreshed, not burned out already.</p>
<p>However, most of those people who take time off in biology do something science-related during those years, mostly being lab technicians. I don’t know many who took time to do non-science activities, although one of the guys in my cohort was a science teacher for a year.</p>
<p>For a non-science-related year off, I think it won’t matter much either way. Science PhD programs tend not to be too interested in activities and jobs that don’t relate to research.</p>
<p>Mollie, I was hoping you would see my post, thanks! I think his current thinking is to do something that would not be related to his field [Seismology and Geophysics] for a year or so. He is planning on applying to some very selective PHD programs, so I wanted to get an idea if taking some time off from pure science might negatively impact his chances of acceptance. I know that a fellowship program opportunity would be considered a good “reason” for delaying the start of a PHD program. He has been doing summer research into a seismological series of events for 4 years, and is in the last phase of preparing a paper for publication to a number of geological journals, so hopefully he will be published by the time he graduates.</p>
<p>Wow, sounds like that son of yours is doing well, menloparkmom. I’m so glad to hear it.</p>
<p>Many PhD applicants are working in labs - either at the university where they matriculated or some other (bigger) school. Sounds like your son has a great lab background and a year off in other pursuits wouldn’t hurt. What is he considering doing instead?</p>
<p>Peace Core perhaps? That was something he mentioned today, in part because a good friend in his UG program is thinking about doing that. This summer he is toggeling between polishing his paper , and starting a new geophysics research project back at college.</p>
<p>one thing to keep in mind is that many PhD programs in the hard sciences have really tough “qual” or “screening” exams which test fundamental concepts in their 1st or 2nd year. </p>
<p>There isn’t any point studying for these before being accepted (because they vary so much from school to school) but it would be good if taking a year off to occasionally “keep the gears oiled”, if you know what I mean :)</p>
<p>Graduate school is a very long, tough experience. I would recommend anyone considering it to take a year or two off from schoolwork to think through their commitment - sort of like the way one would think carefully about taking final vows in a religious order.</p>
<p>If he is a good candidate, the time off won’t hurt him.</p>
<p>Also, I know that at least in Biology, it is quite easy to defer for a year before entering. That might be the best solution-- he can apply and interview in his senior year of college, and then defer for a year to do the peace core.</p>
<p>Most admissions committees will not look positively on a Peace Corp experience. They will view it with puzzlement at best, as a lack of commitment to science or the mark of someone uncertain about his way at worst. </p>
<p>Not pretty, but the facts. </p>
<p>OTOH, time in the Peace Corps may very well lead him to re-think his goals, which is a good thing IMHO. </p>
<p>Careers in science are tough. There are many other equally rewarding ways to live one’s life, so now is a good time to explore a bit.</p>
<p>menloparkmom, has your S asked his professors how a non-research delay would be viewed? Or, S could pose the question to some prospective schools, perhaps in the guise of wanting to know about fellowships and support (“Do most of your incoming students enter right out of undergrad? Or, are any students taking time off to work and save money towards grad school living expenses?”)</p>
<p>I have three anecdotes about students taking off time between undergrad and grad. One spent some time living abroad and then working as a house painter (!) before entering a highly prestigious grad program in the physical sciences. The student’s undergrad record was exemplary. Another entered the work force for two years in a field related to their eventual grad school field (again in the physical sciences) before attending a top 20 grad program. Student’s undergrad record was OK but not stellar. Final example, and most recent (other two are a couple of decades old) was in bio field: time off working in related field, grad school through masters in top 20 program, back to work, then vet school. This individual had/has an outstanding research record and the recommendations to back it up, but grades were more B’s than A’s. If I were to generalize, I’d say that a strong undergrad record at a well-regarded school carries the day. But I’d still check with my professors.</p>
<p>Thanks for this thread and insight. My d just graduate with as a biochem major and contemplating grad school. I wanted her to apply right away but she wanted to wait and work for a year or two… she won.</p>
<p>“Most admissions committees will not look positively on a Peace Corp experience. They will view it with puzzlement at best, as a lack of commitment to science or the mark of someone uncertain about his way at worst.”
that is the concern…</p>
<p>“has your S asked his professors how a non-research delay would be viewed? Or, S could pose the question to some prospective schools, perhaps in the guise of wanting to know about fellowships and support (“Do most of your incoming students enter right out of undergrad? Or, are any students taking time off to work and save money towards grad school living expenses?””
he will be aiming for a pHD program, with hopefully a large enough stipend to take care of his frugal living expenses. We will cover the rest if need be, though based on what he is earning this summer in his internships we might not have to. He says he will not be apply to grad school at his current U[the graduate program and students do not impress him and he will have already taken 5 grad classes in his field before graduating], so asking those professors will probably not give him the insight he is looking for.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This sounds like reasonable plan to me, but it would be worth finding out what has happened in those grad programs in past years. Apply senior year. See where he gets in and what level of support they offer him. Then investigate the possibility of a one-year deferral to do x. I think that if x involves service, this might be all right. I think some professors may smirk or roll their eyes at the idealism of youth but I don’t think they will hold this against him academically. I am not sure how this will affect his funding though…</p>
<p>I am also a bit worried about the timing of the qualifying exams; keep that in mind. Will too much undergrad material fall out of his brain during the year of x? What is the timing for the qualifying exam? etc.</p>
<p>I would not sweat the qualifying exam issue for the following reasons:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>the better programs don’t use the exams to “screen” their grad students. They know that everyone they admit can do the work. They use the exams to “motivate” students to master a common body of knowledge that is relevant to the discipline.</p></li>
<li><p>the content of these exams is well known, well communicated and not based on undergrad prep. They’re based on grad level material, material often taught in the first year of grad school.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Taking a break will not prevent someone from getting into a good grad program. Indeed, as others have suggested, for any well qualified student, it will be a minor issue.</p>
<p>Where the break may matter is in acceptance to the very best labs/programs, and perhaps in awarding top scholarships/fellowships.</p>
<p>One additional problem that WILL arise is interviewing and admitted students visits, where some of the mutual inspection for certain labs takes place. It would be a pity to miss out on this, because the practical impact could be to delay getting into a top lab by 6-12 months.</p>
<p>I’m not so sure I agree that grad programs will look unfavorably on a year off doing something unrelated, but I am not familiar with geology. I have seen engineering students do Teach for America and go on to top engineering grad programs afterwards. I have also seen an engineering student defer for a year after acceptance to the top grad program in his field. But in that particular case, he had one of those national grad fellowships and was therefore not depending on the school or a professor for funding.</p>
<p>Even if your son is not interested in applying to grad school at his own university, he should ask his professors these questions – they should know how a year off would be perceived by others in their field.</p>
<p>It makes sense to apply and then ask for a one year deferral – that way he wouldn’t miss grad school interviews. However, this may be a problem with Peace Corps – doesn’t it require a 2 year commitment? </p>
<p>My advice is to have him look at the web pages of the grad students who are currently enrolled in the departments he will apply to. There will be many students who have posted their CV’s and life stories on their web pages and he will easily be able to see if any have done something like what he is proposing.</p>
<p>“My advice is to have him look at the web pages of the grad students who are currently enrolled in the departments he will apply to. There will be many students who have posted their CV’s and life stories on their web pages and he will easily be able to see if any have done something like what he is proposing.”
GREAT IDEA! I will pass it on, thanks.</p>
<p>Whatever one data point is worth…one of my friends from grad school was doing a PhD in theoretical physics after spending time in the Peace Corps. He’s now teaching at a first-tier university. I get the sense that he was a superstar researcher, so they didn’t care that much about anything else. But he thought the experience was invaluable on a personal level. He expected to spend his life in academia thinking deep thoughts, and he thought it was important to spend some time helping people in the real world before retreating into an intellectual cocoon (as he put it).</p>
<p>“But he thought the experience was invaluable on a personal level. He expected to spend his life in academia thinking deep thoughts, and he thought it was important to spend some time helping people in the real world before retreating into an intellectual cocoon (as he put it”
that’s what Son is thinking too.</p>