<p>Actually, the California public higher education system was structured to improve opportunity for those from lower SES backgrounds during its 1960s expansion. Governor Edmund Brown (the earlier one) did not go to college because he could not afford to (although he did attend law school at night to get a law degree because a bachelor’s degree was not then required to do so), so he pushed the California public higher education system to improve opportunity for those from lower SES backgrounds. The legacy of that remains in (a) the relatively strong community college -> state university transfer route (note that the state universities are intended to have 60% upper division and 40% lower division students, with the “extra” upper division students coming from transfers), and (b) the relatively generous in-state financial aid.</p>
<p>It is, however, the case, then and now, that the California K-12 education system commonly fails miserably for lower SES students. The result is that, at high school graduation, lower SES students tend to be college ready at lower rates than higher SES students.</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that family wealth should be used as a proxy for ability and therefore used to determine the kids’ individual educational opportunities, rather than letting the kids, whether from rich or poor families, get appropriate educational opportunities based on their abilities?</p>
<p>No, use academic measures such as test scores and grades, but don’t assume that unequal outcomes by the end of 12th grade are primarily due to differences in school quality.</p>
<p>My sister has made a very nice living in fashion design in NYC. It is a major industry you know/ Wisconsin has a similar program that is small and successful. </p>
<p>James Fallows wrote an interesting book years ago, partly about the rise of credentialism, which was entitled “More Like Us.” It was a response to the then-panic about the idea that Japan was going to take over the world, starting with us.</p>
<p>One of his points was that in days of yore one could simply take the bar exam and be a lawyer, having proved one’s knowledge of the law.</p>
<p>gman11, on the first page of this thread, ucbalumnus posted a couple of links related to the book, which is where I read this. IUB is mentioned in the NYTimes article.</p>
<p>and barrons, I think fashion design and interior design are interesting, creative fields of study, but the major of “apparel merchandising”, which they also have at IUB (and many other schools), seems kind of narrow and specific to me for an undergraduate major.</p>
<p>Well I think all design is an excellent use of college resources, frankly. It is no different than any business and it is big business. Why shouldn’t there be a major in fashion merchandising but a major in marketing? Because YOU have decided its not important? Who are you?</p>
<p>Bel, I really agree with you about the over necessity of the college degree for jobs that ought not need it. I think this is a very unfortunate development.</p>
<p>Many of the best mathematicians and physicists are professors, so if you want to learn math and physics, go to college. I doubt that the best fashion merchandisers are at universities. I know zilch about the field, but I bet that the best way to learn it is to work for people who know something about it, not to sit in college classrooms for four years.</p>
<p>Actually, there’s a great deal of market research and computer design involved in this world. Solid math skills are a huge plus, CS, very sought after. You’d be surprised Bel. </p>
<p>College was originally divinity school for the most part. Things do change</p>
<p>As poetgrl mentioned much earlier in the thread that she wishes that low SES students paid little for college, the state of Indiana has a program for those students that are identified and apply in 8th grade for the 21st Century Scholarship Covenant. Low SES students can get the remaining fees (above tuition and required fees) covered for public education in Indiana. While it still means living on a shoestring, it does allow for many more students to go to school without large amounts of debt.
<a href=“Indiana University Bloomington”>Indiana University Bloomington;
<p>The program makes little effort to direct aid to students who have the scholastic aptitude for college, requiring only a high school diploma and a 2.0 high school GPA.</p>
<p>Beliavsky, that also covers the cost fo trade schools and junior colleges. Seriously, I wonder sometimes if you know what it is like for a family of 4 to live so far under the poverty line. The demands of working, caring for children, etc can and often do wreak havoc on families. I am sure that Indiana set it low enough to catch those who want and need education as a way to lift themselves up. heck the average household income in Indiana is below the national average and we have below average numbers of college-educated residents. The state knows it has a problem and is willing to try to turn it around.</p>
<p>I have absolutely no problem subsidizing open access community colleges, even if it means some of “those” kinds if students will go to them. </p>
<p>MizzBee, what happens if a child’s parents fall below the poverty line after the student reaches 9th grade? Are they not eligible for the tuition/fees elimination?</p>
<p>Well said MB. And frankly I’m not sure why we always have to worry only about the brightest. It’s not as if the rest are going to go out on an ice floe and vanish, Beliavdky. </p>
<p>Seriously. I’d think you of all people would approve of this mission and the ability to use it to enter the trades or get CC certificates.</p>
<p>whenwhen, you have touched on the heart of the problem. The program doesn’t help those who fall on hard times after the 8th grade year. My family was affected by this. In 8th grade both my husband and I had good full-time jobs. By his freshman year DS would have been eligible but it was too late. That is why DS is at a private school with great aid.
By making it for 8th grade, the students that are most likely affected by poverty long-term will benefit. Otherwise, parents would quit working to get the benefit.</p>
<p>These days narrow and specific can be a benefit. The big midwest publics were tasked to educate and prepare people for both the liberal arts and sciences and the practical that meet the needs of the state. target, Kohls and other large retail orgs have been very supportive of programs at UW. In turn UW prepares some students for jobs with them and other similar companies. </p>