<p>My DS has received offers of admission from a number of amazing programs, and we have received the financial aid/merit aid info from some of them. I know that is is possible to put in a request for a reevaluation, and that offers from a comparable institution might be reviewed. How does one know what is considered comparable? Is it based on the nature of the music program, the specific instrument, the specific teacher's studio, the academics, the size? If this was a "regular" academic admit I know they would likely consider rankings, size, public/private, but at this point I am lost!</p>
<p>Thanks for any help you can provide!</p>
<p>headoflife, it can depend on a number of things. From the acceptance list, I see we are talking about Eastman, Indiana, Northwestern and UIUC. I am not familiar with the trombone departments at each, so take this with a liberal application of NaCl, but I think there is a chance that they could all be considered comparable to one another.</p>
<p>The trombone departments at Eastman, Indiana and Northwestern are all in the top tier and you may be able to get some leeway scholarships wise if someone they offered a scholarship too turns down the offer and you can say that another of the three schools offered a better total cost to attend. However, the three schools offer very different experiences. Indiana is a typical large state school, 45,000 kids with a huge, but highly regarded, music program. Eastman is a great conservatory associated with a large university a few miles away and Northwestern is a great music school in a highly academic university. Think a lot depends on the type of experience DS is looking for as all will provide a rewarding music environment. Good luck as the choice between those three will be difficult. Great problem to have.</p>
<p>There is one more, an it is the least like the others…Juilliard. I am not sure how to approach them. While Eastman is fairly self- contained, it still remains a part of the University of Rochester. Juilliard is the only true conservatory on the list, and it is, as you can imagine pretty high on my DS’ list, but certainly not the most affordable, an cost is, unfortunately a significant factor in our family.</p>
<p>Any other information is greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>headoflife, one thing I can tell you about Juilliard is that, should your son attend, his opportunities for earning may be higher than at other schools, which could offset the price of tuition. Also, as a freshman, he is required to live in the dorms, but after that many students move off campus (and those with parents who live within commuting distances often move back home.) </p>
<p>Juilliard offers unlimited self-funded work study. There are also continual opportunities to play in lab orchestras and other institutional gigs, as well as a concert office that helps students find gigs in the area. After freshman year, he is eligible to apply for performance and teaching fellowships. Not all students at Juilliard take advantage of these opportunities but my daughter has been able to offset much of the cost of her room and board (living off campus) through work provided through Juilliard. She also teaches and coaches privately. </p>
<p>One thing I like about Juilliard’s approach is that these experiences help students learn to negotiate many different worlds. They learn to navigate nonprofits and other types of corporations and bureaucracies. They learn to write grants and to apply entrepreneurial opportunities.</p>
<p>NJJazz dad,</p>
<p>Cost in not the only factor, but it is a consideration. I am trying to navigate that part of this as much as possible, and am trying to have DS consider the other issues. I have attempted to encourage him to think about his image of an ideal next 4-5 years, and which of the amazing programs best fit that image. He is aware that he will likely be looking at an advanced degree program, so this is not his last educational institution. Perhaps he will decide that some of these schools would better suit him as a grad student. We shall see.</p>
<p>Glasshormonica,</p>
<p>I expected he would not live in the dorm for 4 years, and hoped the other options might be cheaper, but the cost of housing and food, even off campus, is a concern. I love NYC, but know it is a very expensive city. I am having a hard time envisioning a safe area, that is even marginally convenient and affordable. It is great to hear that your D is able to manage a full course load while also earning a significant amount of money. I admit I am having a hard time picturing my child doing the same, but perhaps I underestimate him. I certainly did not think he would have been accepted to all the schools he chose.</p>
<p>headoflife, Yes my S faced the similar choices four years ago for Bass Trombone and adding Juilliard into the mix that is a very difficult choice. Eastman is almost a conservatory and similar to Juilliard has its dorm next door to the college which can be stiffling. All four turn out great trombonists that win jobs but as glassharmonica says Juilliard seems to have some extra things that may tilt things in its favor. Good luck in your choices.</p>
<p>One thing to consider if your child has never lived in New York, is that for some kids it can be overwhelming. The challenge of living in a city like New York for a kid coming from a suburban environment can be contribute to freshman year struggles, especially if money is tight and your child will not have “play” money so they can partake in eating out, going to concerts etc etc. Even traveling on the subway can add up and get expensive.</p>
<p>Last year we were in a similar position. We found ourselves telling our son to go with his gut. He was resisting his gut because it seemed too easy. The school was not far from home, it was familiar to him and he already knew students there. Our son did several things to help him decide, he talked to students at some of the other schools who he knew. He also shadowed a student at his “first choice” and he visited Oberlin (which was on his list but was never his first choice and was more mom’s first choice). After that he went with his gut and doing so landed in just the right spot for him. </p>
<p>BTW, we found the financial aide people at our son’s school to be very helpful once we had an idea the school was our son’s first choice, so if your son chooses a school that did not make as big an offer as you would like call and talk to the financial aide staff. You might be pleasantly surprised that they are willing to work with you. Also when calculating tuition and subtracting scholarships make sure to take into account travel (especially if air travel is involved…keeping in mind that a carbon tax is likely to get considerably bigger in the next four years) and the costs that come up based on where you live. My son who goes to school in the middle of nowhere never spends any money. My son who goes to school in Boston can easily spend what ever money he earns doing gigs. When my daughter lived in New York one summer and working and doing an internship it was all she was barely scraping by and managing to pay rent on her sublet in Alphabet City.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the feedback, and please keep it coming. I am concerned about his living in NYC. He is coming from a suburban environment, and while he does navigate the city with friends, and to get to and from certain commitments, it is not NYC. I have friends that lived there after college, and while it is cleaner and more of Manhattan is tourist friendly, it is certainly not cheaper or slower paced. Once upon a time Brooklyn was affordable. Now, I am not certain where students can live. I had a friend who shared a 2 bedroom 4th floor walk-up with 3 other 20-somethings in Manhattan and it cost a fortune even in the '80s. If it becomes affordable, it will be his choice, but he knows he needs to look at the lifestyle he will be choosing, and as a mom, I can’t help but be a bit concerned and wonder if it might not suit him better to go there for grad school. So many amazing options! He is truly fortunate, but there are hard choices to be made.</p>
<p>You should choose what you are comfortable with. Many suburban kids do well in NYC (and StacJip, my daughter does okay without “play money”. Of course there are wealthy kids at Juilliard who live in penthouses and spend a lot of recreation; however most kids learn how to live frugally.) But listen to your gut. If it feels wrong, then don’t do it. </p>
<p>Where do kids live? Uptown in Harlem and Washington Heights; in affordable parts of Brooklyn. My daughter and her roommates have a 3 bedroom 5th floor UWS walkup-- spacious with high ceilings and pretty but not luxurious. 12 months’ rent plus metro cards is still considerably cheaper than dorm living.</p>
<p>Back to the original question of the “peer schools,” those departments would probably all be on the same level as far as trombone is concerned except for Illinois (unless it’s for jazz, in which case it would be on the same level). </p>
<p>As far as the schools he’s looking at, there are a couple of things to consider: I think Juilliard is the pretty clear leader in terms of schools putting trombone players in jobs right now, but Northwestern’s a not-distant second on the list, and Indiana’s right up there. If one is significantly cheaper than any of the others, those three schools have proven track-records with their current teachers. I know that employment isn’t the only factor for college, but if he’s going with the performance route I’m sure it’s no small part of the consideration, either. A chance to go to any of those schools without much debt on his part, too, would put him in a great position. If he wins a full-time gig that’s still not hugely lucrative (a friend of mine left one of those schools early from a master’s degree to take a position with an orchestra that pays about $28k, for instance), it’d be nice not to be hampered by crushing loan debt. I know that that side is all your family’s business, but the financial freedom to get by on modest success is an important one for musicians at the beginning of their careers.</p>
<p>Since there’s already consensus that the programs are largely comparable in terms of quailty (with the obvious “prestige/opportunity” edge going to Julliard) I think your pros and cons will be unique to your financial vantage.</p>
<p>Northwestern, for example, is a “meets-need” school (as it defines it) school. However, full pay is another matter. So, it’s fiscally less attractive as a full pay than it might be if you were determined to have a fair amount of need. </p>
<p>Comparatively, I found IU’s OOS tuition to be exceptionally reasonable – good value for the dollar – even BEFORE automatic academic scholarships kicked in. (My son went elsewhere, but Jacobs was the best deal by far in terms of OOS net cost, but that’s because mcson’s other preferred programs were at privates.) </p>
<p>One school on the list back then was NYU’s Tisch’s Clive Davis program, which was a dead last in terms of fiscal viability for us. I took mcson to New York for a program review and then basically made him pay for everything and stay in a youth hostel, etc. </p>
<p>Miraculously, he decided he might prefer New York for GRAD school, not undergrad ;)</p>
<p>Perhaps this was playing dirty, but I wanted him to understand what NYC feels like when your cash is tight, not to just have an idealized notion in his head. I personally would have loved it when I was his age, but I also knew that he and I are quite different, and suspected he would find it a titch over-stimulating, which he did.</p>
<p>That said, if he was a performance major instead of tech; if he had have applied to Julliard and been accepted; well, in that case it might have been a no-brainer. So be sure to visit!</p>