<p>For econ 101, you need explicit permission from the department to register, and they won’t register you unless you have credit for econ 001/002. Well in my case, since I hadn’t yet submitted AP exam scores, I just told them I had AP credit for it and will submit my scores when I get a chance, and they allowed me to register.</p>
<p>As for econ 001/002 I don’t really know anything about them. I heard bad things about them so just went straight to 101.</p>
<p>Honors math is not something you take just because the curve is better, because that’ll just end disastrously. In your case I suggested it since it is very useful for computer science. And economics too, in fact, if you intend to do any graduate level economics coursework. But yea you have to make sure it’s something you want to spend time on, as it does take much more time than a regular calculus class. Proofs will become natural, but only after you’ve done a lot of them. And then each field of math typically has some of its own styles of proofs that you have to get used to.</p>
<p>Okay, here’s my question to all you ivy leaguers: if a kid gets a 93 percent in a class and still ends up with a low grade thus telling him/her that they didn’t know the information well enough (when in fact this is the complete opposite) what is the bloody point!?!? Is the kid that ended up with a B minus any less intelligent than the kid that got an A? Of course not! This is the problem with grade deflation. It shows no measure of what the student actually knows or doesn’t know.</p>
<p>Curves exist to tell you that a certain proportion of the class did better than you and to standardize results across professors and classes. It makes the GPA a more valid tool. What is more telling–raw score or rank?</p>
<p>There’s a reason why AP Chem/Bio/Physics only give credit for the 090-level, which aren’t actually prerequisites for anything. Science and math courses here are far more difficult than high school-level classes, and science classes in particular have much harsher curves than other courses.</p>
<p>And on honors courses…a lot of them only accept kids with above a certain GPA, and some (like FNCE 100 or 101) can be quite tough to get into. This means that, with a generous 40-30-20 curve, you’re competing for the top 40% with kids who are in the top 10% at Penn, who were in the top 10% of applicants, who were in the top 10% of their high school class. Yeah…there’s no easy way out.</p>
<p>IRGovmnt-Just a quick question-What kind of class wouldn’t give a good grade to a student who gets a 93!? Are the Econ 001 and 002 curves that terrible? Why, in these courses, would a 93 end up as a B-minus!? Please tell me that’s not the case.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people don’t understand/fully picture how curves work…</p>
<p>Lets say a Econ 001 has 100 kids, and the curve is (for some generous reason) 75% A, 25% B. (This is hypothetical). On the midterm, 75 kids get 100, and the other 25 get 0-99. By this made up curve, the kids who got a 100 get an A, and the 0-99 kids get a B.</p>
<p>You might ask yourself—“WHAT??? A 99 is a B!!!” </p>
<p>Well, remember that this scenario is a bit extreme; after all, it’s darn near impossible for 75% of the class to get 100 (raw score) on a midterm exam. But, this example is to show you truly how curves work…it is to, as Wharton15 nicely points out, differentiate who is scoring higher and lower than you. No longer are grades on the cushy (90 or higher is an A, 80-90 is a B, etc.) system like it was in high school (at least, that was the system in my high school). </p>
<p>I’m not for or against curves…I’m just showing you how extreme they COULD work (remember, my scenario was made-up). So when you ask, “how is a 93 a B-?!”, well, look at this case…a 99 would be a B. :P</p>
<p>Hardworking, I have never seen a grading scheme even close to the one you describe at Penn. First of all, in the sciences where many of the classes are curved very rarely is the class average above 80%, it most often ranges from 60-75%. Secondly, “curve” is used as a very general term and is not always as rigid as one imagines. Sometimes grades are decided based on an absolute scale once all of the scores are in. The only truly rigid curve I can think of is Wharton’s curve, but still I hear that for the most part it is reasonable.</p>
<p>I really think people worry too much about curves, just take classes you are interested in and learn for learning’s sake. If you study in a smart and efficient manner the grades will follow.</p>
<p>Poeme-Your view on grades is definitely right. I definitely don’t plan to constantly fret about grades, but I just had to know about these two courses in particular (Econ 001 and 002) because I am going to try to transfer to Wharton and I don’t want it to mess up my chances if, say, I get a B in these courses.</p>
<p>That is why I was wondering if you could ask your friends who had take Econ 001 and 002 whether they could get back to me with general distribution information for grades.</p>
<p>So basically, because some do WELL in a class dictates some succeeding and others doing worse? I’ve never heard of such a thing. In my anatomy class, the teacher had to curve the tests sometimes 15 points because top students would get 40 percents. I guess it’s the same principle except backwards.</p>
<p>Poeme–I know. Completely fictional and an extreme/darn near impossible example. I’m just trying to explain why, perchance, a 93 isn’t an A, which seemed to throw a lot of people off (it did for me when I first learned of a curve for grading in high school). </p>
<p>IRgovmnt—Not necessarily backwards. Curves work nicely too! If the test was horrendously difficult (say, the highest score was a 35%), that doesn’t mean everyone fails. Rather, the curve works so that the highest scorer, a 35%, will end up being an A (if my understanding of curves is correct), and say a 25% on that test would be a B+ or B (depending on how the curve is set-up, etc.). </p>
<p>Again, Poeme makes a great point—just do your best, and let the curve work itself out. I think going into a class with a curve is just to remind you that it’s different from high school grading (where a 90-100 was an A, 80-90 was a B, etc…or whatever system your high school used)!</p>
<p>That will (almost) never happen at Penn. A 93 would be comfortably in the A or A- region for pretty much every class, even the supposed “intro classes that kill GPAs.”</p>
<p>Wow - this is interesting. I am on CC looking around for my son - but stumbled across this thread. I graduated from Penn many years ago. I very clearly remember my freshman year taking a first level calc class - material which everyone in the class had had in high school. Everything was graded on a curve, and on the first exam I got a 96 (or 97?) and it was a C!! The only way to be assured a decent grade was to get 100’s. It was crazy…</p>
<p>Well, it seems Penn’s changed. In my Math 104 class, a 13/15 on the final brought you into the A range (A/A-). </p>
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<p>Generally, yes. However, there are some non-curved courses like language courses that often set a 920 or a 950 out of a thousand points as “A-range”. And depending on where you are in the A-range, the prof will determine whether you should get an A or A-. </p>
<p>Imo, non-curved classes are slightly harder because they’re more unforgiving to occasional screw-ups in exams/papers. In a curved class, if you accidentally screw up a final, sure your A’s gone, but because the B+ and B range is so large, your GPA doesn’t crater. In non-curved classes, if in the final you’re given a choice of one of two essays that counts for more than 70% of the final grade, and you don’t know the themes behind each extremely well (happens quite a lot, since the reading for these courses is so vast), well you’re pretty much screwed. A low 80 would be a C/C+ in this course as the B range is so small as compared to a curved class.</p>
<p>thanks a lot for the feedback. however, aren’t you a columbia student? you seem to be labelled an anti-Penn ■■■■■ on these forums as well…I’m not saying you are, but if you ARE a penn student, why do you hate the school this much? suspicious.</p>