Penn or Williams?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I'm having a hard time deciding between Penn and Williams College. I really love both colleges, so I was wondering if you guys could help me out here:</p>

<p>1) I want to go on to either law school or receive my PhD in humanities (foreign languages or English). I want to major in a foreign language. Williams has a HIGH level of acceptance into grad schools, and of course Penn is Penn. On the undergraduate level, Penn has larger language departments and more students majoring in language, which may mean the departments are stronger. </p>

<p>2) I've always wanted to go to both institutions. I realize they're both really different; Williams is small, and on the one hand I love it but I do not like the idea of being isolated in the middle of nowhere. There are also more students at Penn who I meet, yet I will be able to form really tight bonds with the students who I meet at Williams. </p>

<p>2) I know Penn is an Ivy league school. Williams is AMAZING and people rave about it, and although prestige isn't most important, more people know about Penn than Williams. But Williams is still regarded as the best/one of the best liberal arts colleges, and a Williams education can't be replicated. </p>

<p>What do you guys think? Thanks for the input.</p>

2

<p>I am waitlisted by UPENN, and prefer UPENN.</p>

3

<p>I could rave about both schools. What it comes down to, at this point, is personal fit.</p>

<p>Both are highly selective and highly regarded by employers and grad schools alike. Prestige should not bother you in the least, and the truth is that Williams is equally as highly regarded as Penn by EVERYONE who matters.</p>

<p>Languages: Penn’s foreign language departments are all among the most highly ranked in the nation. French and Spanish are both Top 5 departments, and attract academic luminaries. As a corollary, Penn’s linguistics is also Top 5.</p>

<p>Williams’ departments are all much smaller - it is not a research university, after all - but also very strong. Due to their size, they are not usually included in national rankings, but I am certain that your education would be very well served; LACs are known for being pretty good about educating their students, especially Williams.</p>

<p>Location: The locations are so essentially disparate as to be nearly incomparable. Williams is in Williamstown, in the northwestern corner of MA. It is literally in the middle of nowhere: 2 hours from Boston, 3.5 from NYC. You can fly in via Albany, but you would still have a 1 hour drive from there. In other words, it is not easily accessible. The college is very self-contained, and the social life is healthy. But the city provides few distractions.</p>

<p>Penn is in Philadelphia. It is 1 hour to NYC by train. Within easy access of Philadelphia Int’l airport. In an urban setting, but still very self-contained in terms of social life, if that’s what you’re looking for. It can be a bit preppy-WASPY-fratty (as I imagine Williams is), but it’s also HEAVILY minority. 47% of the incoming class is composed of URMs, and there is also a large contingent of Jews.</p>

<p>I hope that helps. I would be conflicted, as well, but I would lean towards Penn - I would not want to be in Williamstown for 4 full years, regardless of how good the school is.</p>

4

<p>I’ve been accepted by both Penn and Williams</p>

<p>Right now I think it’ll be best if you visit both schools. Even though I know I’ll probably die living in the middle of nowhere for 4 years the city can be a distraction. Idk I was kinda thinking of Williams as a one time offer since you can’t attend grad school at Williams. Also because it’s kinda interesting how they have the Oxford/Cambridge style tutorials.</p>

<p>I also kinda wanna major more in international relations and being in Philly will keep me with an open mind being able to meet several ppl.</p>

<p>But ahh in Williams you can make life long friends just because of the small freshmen class of 600 compared to Penn’s 2000. But then that doesn’t mean you can’t do that at Penn. </p>

<p>Also Penn’s social scene is pretty much better. And you know letting out those spasms of stress could really drive you insane.</p>

<p>Penn also has a higher endowment, obviously being a research universities.</p>

<p>Also, we should consider the types of programs and opportunities you can have at Penn while being an undergrad.</p>

<p>I think you should also consider the financial factor.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, ditto im in the sameeeee problemmmmmm.</p>

5

<p>williams!!!</p>

6

<p>Same problem here guys. Read these threads I made in the Williams board and on the Penn board (specifically about Wharton). People have been really helpful.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/682247-williams-wharton.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/682247-williams-wharton.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/williams-college/682250-williams-wharton.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/williams-college/682250-williams-wharton.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

7

<p>Endowment-wise, I wouldn’t be so quick to jump on Penn’s boat…</p>

<p>Williams $686,195 / student<br>
UPenn $208,000 / student</p>

8

<p>This is a common fallacy. Endowment per student is far less important than total endowment. A university’s endowment is primarily utilized to fund research and shore up large-scale financing projects; it’s not as though they’re handing out candy to undergrads, and Williams can buy more packs of bubblegum per student than Penn can. Penn’s endowment is one of the largest in the country, and the fact that it’s already that much per student is more than sufficient for its purposes.</p>

9

<p>Thanks for the points everyone. This is still a really tough decision. I’d want to major in Spanish, so I’m guessing Penn has the better department?</p>

10

<p>Endowment per student is actually a slightly more important metric than overall endowment though overall endowment is also an important metric. Placement in law schools is slightly better I think for Penn overall while if you are looking to get into a PhD program in English or languages Williams does better. It is important for you to be aware though that universities right now have huge preferences in hiring native foreign language speakers as faculty. Many people in the languages that are earning PhD’s at American universities that are not native speakers are having a difficult time finding jobs.</p>

<p>In terms of making really close friends you will have no more of a problem doing that at Penn than at Williams. The greater question is whether or not you want to have the opportunity to be anonymous every once in a while. At Williams you can’t really recreate yourself socially and everyone kind of knows everyone – at least much more than at Penn.</p>

11

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<p>You make life long friends at Penn, or even Penn State which is 30,000 students. </p>

<p>I think Penn is better in this regard because not only can you make life long friends, but you have a much more substantial network to call on. </p>

<p>I do a lot of travel and work abroad, and it’s both comforting and amazing there are enough Penn alumni that you can find them in just about every city on earth.</p>

<p>When I was at Penn I had a friend freshman year whom I didn’t really see after that. But by strange coincidence, he and I have both wound up on the other side of the world in Bangalore, and we’re closer now than we ever were at Penn. I even got to befriend a Penn kid whom I simply never met in my entire time at Penn.</p>

<p>It’s like a lot of friend seedlings that will serve you for the rest of your life.</p>

<p>It’s the upside of the large class size that also brings me the shame of a 17% acceptance rate ;)</p>

12

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<p>For comparison, Williams was 20% this year.</p>

13

<p>Thanks for your comments everyone. Davida1, I had no idea non-native speakers were having such a hard time finding jobs. Even if I have great qualifications, is it worth it to pursue a PhD in a foreign language?</p>

<p>Because of its liberal arts focus, is Williams a stronger option if I want to pursue a PhD in English or another subject?</p>

<p>About the endowment: has Penn’s endowment taken a huge hit because of the economic downturn?</p>

14

<p>Penn’s endowment lost 19%, and is now $5.1 billion.
Williams’ endowment lost 27%, and is now $1.3 billion.</p>

15

<p>^ Williams is currently undergoing several impressive construction projects-- the endowment would have gone down anyways.</p>

16

<p>Penn and Williams are such different schools. One is huge (relatively) and urban. The other is small and in the middle of the boonies. Ask yourself where you want to be for the next four years, in the city or on a small intimate campus.</p>

<p>The academics at both places will be excellent, so you should really be looking at other factors in which there is a much much larger difference.</p>

17

<p>I’d say Williams.</p>

18

<p>Thanks again everyone. PhatAlbert, I wish the decision were that easy. It seems that there is a marginal difference between the schools, so it actually is making it harder for me to choose between them. Williams seems so unique, as does Penn. Because of that, I’m looking more specifically into the schools to try to find a solid reason why I should attend one over the other.</p>

<p>Do you guys think I’m looking too much into this? Should I just pick Penn because its academics are on par with Williams, but the school itself is larger/in a city, vice versa?</p>

19

<p>I’m in the same situation as you man, and I don’t think “looking too much into this” is bad at all (because I am a lot). I am going to be visiting both schools again and getting a feel of the campus. I think there are a lot more reasons to pick the school. For example, williams doesn’t have an undergrad program so the teachers are actual professors and they pay much more attention to undergrads than at Penn (of course, I’m assuming this here but it seems obvious). There are tutorials at williams (2 person classes). Though Wharton is Wharton and the obvious choice for business. They have amazing facilities at Penn, a bigger campus (which to me is awesome, having this huge big campus available to me. I like the idea of that). I don’t really know.</p>

20

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Someone needs a lesson in corporate finance and how endowments work…</p>