<p>How is this detrimental to future applicants? Did people say that when Harvard, Yale, and Stanford enacted similar policies? Was it a PR move on their parts too?</p>
<p>A key point to remember is that Penn is not as wealthy as the other Ivies that have adopted similar plans. Those other schools are funding most of their FA assistance from their endowments (I think the figure is 80%) while Penn is funding theirs from operating income (with only 12% from endowment I believe). Thus, this may represent the best that Penn can do at this time given its fiscal constraints of a much lower endowment per student than even many LACs.</p>
<p>Too bad this wasn't put into effect a few years ago, Penn was a school I was really interested in......Good for them though</p>
<p>Trust me, its possible to have two working parents and make less than $50,000....mine barely make 35</p>
<p>I'm from a single-parent household and my mother makes ~$30,000 after taxes, and we receive no child support, and Tufts is giving me a grant for $38,000/year, so I just want people to know that, simply because schools don't make an ad campaign out of it or call it something, a lot of them do it, and get no recognition for it.</p>
<p>but wait...is this really the same as the harvard yale deal....harvarda yale states no family contribution...while penn states no student loans...is there a difference...which deal is better</p>
<p>It's good to be poor in America. In CA the gov't will pay for your housing, you can make money illegaly on the side, the gov't will take care of the medical insurance, and your kids can go to college for free. (Not to mention private high schools will give you scholarships...)</p>
<p>also another question....do any of these deal cover room/board...or only tuition..do college ever help u out on expenses beside tuition</p>
<p>Why does it seem like college hate middle class people so much?</p>
<p>Chances are, I'll have more debt upon graduation than students with parents with lower incomes.
I couldn't apply to my top choice ED, despite easier admissions at that time, due to the lack of FinAid assurance.
Even if I get in RD, chances are aid will be meager at best, despite the fact that we cant afford to pay what the gov't says we can.</p>
<p>I know college isn't supposed to come without sarcafices and admissions may not always be fair, but $120k in debt upon graduation is a bit steep and I feel like I've been given the short end of the stick constantly for the past 6 months.</p>
<p>So much for the American dream...</p>
<p>What I don't understand... is that a middle class family making 80k a year, will still most likely have to pay 40 grand a year, and then their disposable income will be 40 grand a year... less than the 50k used in the cut off.</p>
<p>Upper-middle class is screwed yet again.</p>
<p>30k is nowhere near the poverty line. Unless, of course, there are 7 people living in the house. (<a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh04.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh04.html</a>)</p>
<p>I'm astonished by some of the things you all are saying.</p>
<p>I attend a school where the COA is ~$25,000 a year and my family made only ~$31,000. My financial aid package included a $5500 subsidized loan and a $4,000 family contribution. So, it's not exactly anywhere close to a free ride.</p>
<p>Oh, and I'm pretty sure no teachers make $25k a year. In my home county, teachers start out at $35k a year. (<a href="http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/teacher/TeachSalSch.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/teacher/TeachSalSch.html</a>)</p>
<p>Yes, yes. It's great to be poor in America. That was clearly the best contribution of the entire thread...</p>
<p>Visirale, families earning $80k a year would probably qualify for some meager assistance. Without assistance, though, the family would be able to pay full tuition and still live as many families do. The family earning $50k a year would have only $10k left over. It simply isn't an option for that family. Is there any wonder we save our aid resources for the most needy of people?</p>
<p>Middle-class families who struggle to make ends meet and who must take out loans to meet college expenses have a legitimate concern. College is expensive. Many families need help. All would like sweeter packages. That's clear enough.</p>
<p>But what a few posters are saying here really disappoints me. </p>
<p>Snarking about how great poor people have it in this nation? Griping about the decision to dedicate new financial aid money (new money, not taking money from the pool going to other aid applicants) to assist those who are most vulnerable? Trying to eliminate loans for students who have the slimmest of financial safety nets, who are most prone to leave college for financial reasons? That I don't understand at all.</p>
<p>I dunno. It's the semantics of it. Who came up with the arbitrary cut off of 50,000? The 80k a year family will now be poorer than the 50 grand a year family. </p>
<p>And just because a family makes 80 grand a year, it doesn't mean they can spend it all. I'm not going to make my parents move to a different house and sell their cars just so I can go to an Ivy League school. My parents have extremely elderly parents that need financial help to stay alive. I can't take that away from them.</p>
<p>Aid should be based on disposable income, not gross income. That would give the middle-class a better shot at aid.</p>
<p>I would love to see a graph showing the income level of the parents of ivy league students. I predict that it would look like a parabola with a high number of students' families making less than 50 grand and a high number making more than 200 grand.</p>
<p>I'm not going to go crazy about it... but I will deny the Ivy League my matriculation.</p>
<p>It's probably not arbitrary. They may have used HUD guidelines, or decided to go up a notch from Pell qualifications (which is something like $40,000 if I recall correctly).</p>
<p>You're sort of right about the semantics--Penn and schools like Penn need to put something out there that is understandable and digestible. They need to reach those poorest families--the ones who are least likely to be savvy about financial aid and the aid process. They need to make those families understand that a private education is NOT unreachable. </p>
<p>Just because the program is described simply doesn't mean the institution wields its new policy like a club, or throws out all the formulas it has been using for people who aren't included in the new program. </p>
<p>Yes, there are families making $80,000 who have no money available for school. I've seen families who make over $150,000 who qualify for a full aid package--that's zero EFC.</p>
<p>And I don't know about that parabola. Why not take a closer look at Pell grant statistics. My bet is that it doesn't look like a parabola at all. Think about what it takes to gain entrance to Ivies, and the resources that most poor and lower-middle class families have. No private counselors. No SAT prep courses. Not-so-great public schools.</p>
<p>As a single mom, I can see a family deciding that only one parent need work. And other families can spend a lot and have little in savings. Oh well. I hope my S is positioned so that he leaves college/grad school in a position to do work he loves and make a decent living.</p>
<p>Did anyone hear the report that the #1 course at Harvard is now a psychology course on personal fulfillment, where before the most popular course was economy 1?</p>
<p>I hate how hard it is for me to accurately explain how I feel about the whole financial aid situation without sounding like a brat :(</p>
<p>Eckie, I don't think you sounded like a brat. The middle class has some of the most difficult choices to make. I wonder about your circumstances, though. If you are expected to pay $30k a year, are you really middle class?</p>
<p>someone answer my questions! please!!</p>
<p>Karma, it kind of comes down to location and outside circumstances - family members we care for who arent considered dependents plus a home in the Washington metro area (super high cost of living) is a bad mix. A six figure income looks impressive, but it doesnt go as far as most would expect. </p>
<p>Plus, I see how hard my parents work because they didnt go to college, and I don't want them to have to work until theyre 70 because of my college choices. </p>
<p>But its just so hard to know your dream schools might not be viable options due to financial reasons. I guess it's just a first taste of 'the real world.'</p>
<p>Dreaming - interestingly, originally the article was titled "University of Pennsylvania Will Pay Tuition and Room and Board for Families Earning Less Than $50,000" which made it seem like there was NO EFC and that it was covering, obviously, tuition, room, and board.</p>
<p>NOW, however, the article on the site is titled "University of Pennsylvania Will Eliminate Loans for Students of Families Earning Less Than $50,000."</p>
<p>Kind of shady.</p>