Crunch time - my son is deciding between these two schools. We welcome any input pro/con.
We live in Arizona so both schools are out of state. S plans to study business and will graduate with AP and IB credits: 3.72 UW/4.6 W, 34 ACT, top 5%. S is looking for a top academic program as well as a strong sports atmosphere and social life, he plans to rush a fraternity. S is likely to go to graduate school.
Penn State: S visited, loved the traditional-looking campus, school pride evident in the students, and sport facilities. Did not get to tour or presentations, ie. dorm, administrators, or discussion of the program/schedule. State College a college town. Admitted to a Smeal College of Business major, higher ranked than Miami, and highly touted alumni network. Mom is concerned about large class sizes, getting lost in the crowd, cold weather and having to apply to Smeal (after freshman year?). S says the cold won’t bother him, change of seasons interesting. Big brother will be living in Pittsburgh so “close by,” which may factor into his decision.
Miami: S has $26k presidential scholarship, renewable for 4 years with maintained 3.0. Visited with business advising group, noted direct admit into business school with immersion starting freshman year, study abroad options, and international flavor of the school. Coral Gables neighborhood nice, proximity to Miami, and weather seems a plus. Smaller class sizes and what seemed like personal attention from faculty and staff a plus. Business School has a 4 1/2 year dual Bachelor and Master degree in accounting program if he ends up loving accounting, and flexibility with adding additional majors and/or minors. Mom is concerned about “party school” reputation, although we didn’t get that feel while on campus; and a lesser-ranked business program (will this inhibit recruiting?).
After scholarship, Penn State is at least $10k/year more than Miami.
All comments welcome – he loved both and is getting ready to flip a coin!! Thank you.
I think I can help you. My son attended a private university first semester (pretty similar to Miami where he was also considering) and then transferred to Penn State. So, I’ve seen the private vs. public, small vs. large, etc… first hand. My son also had a large scholarship to the Private University making the cost (we live in PA), comparable. He is also a business major.
There are just a few things that I believe your son should focus on:
- All business majors must apply to Smeal in the middle of sophmore year. Finance requires a 3.5. Other business specialties have different GPA requirements which you can find online. A 3.5 is a lofty GPA. Your son needs to consider if he wants that pressure vs. Miami where he is already a direct admit. I would expect our sons’ stats are similar as his scholarship offer to Miami was about the same. Being very smart (and in the upper echelon of student admits), does not guarantee a 3.5 GPA. This is especially true the semester your son pledges (mine just got initiated last week and the time commitment was huge).
- Campus Life- Miami is a school where the kids spend a lot of time in the city at bars. My son’s private school was the same and I hated this. It didn’t seem safe, it was crazy expensive and just not what I thought we were getting since the school has a lovely campus. PSU is all campus all the time. Your son will not be going to bars in a city. He will be going to dorm, apartment or frat parties in a sleepy town completely devoted to PSU. This difference can not be overstated. You have to consider what your son wants and what you want out of a school in this regard.
- Students- Miami has a large international population and many “private school kids” as well. Will your son be comfortable with those kids? The amount of wealth at my son’s private school was definitely obvious. You really need to consider the student population, especially at Miami which is small. At Penn State, your son will have no trouble finding kids like him because it is a very large campus with many different types of kids. My son could have been happy with many of the fraternities he visited during rush. The fraternity houses are also huge and many kids live there. That was a huge plus for my son.
- Sports, Rah Rah- Miami has great sports programs. Penn State’s spirit, and football culture is huge. You really can’t appreciate it til you are there. I was shocked that an entire town was just so devoted to the school, football, etc… This goes to the large vs. small. My son loves the large. He found his place immediately, loves the kids in his dorm, his frat brothers, etc… It is what he always pictured college to be. His private university just did not have that feel. It is ranked high for spirit and partying but it just can’t compare. Best of all, all of Penn State’s fun is centered around its campus.
Good Luck with your choice.
U of Arizona has a good business school and sports atmosphere; no?
If your son was admitted to Smeal (pre major) he does not have to “apply” to Smeal. As long as he has a 3.2 gpa for all business majors except for finance which is a 3.5 and also completes all entrance to major courses he will be admitted to Smeal. Gen ed classes are large, but once he gets into his major they will be small 20-30.
Don’t you now also have to have a 3.2/3.5 in entrance to major courses; in addition to overall GPA, to qualify for entrance to Smeal?
Thank you all for your comments! @PennsyDad my son wants to go OOS, did not consider U of Arizona or ASU.
@japsmom thank you for that link - I am getting a better picture of their curriculum. I see that you cannot double-major within Smeal, that may be a deal breaker as he will be coming in with many credits and can double major with two business degrees at Miami. Trying to figure out how AP credits are treated with the Entrance to Major courses (i.e. Calculus). If he earns AP credit for both Math 140 and 141, does he have to take higher math classes or he just “tests out” of math?
He will test out of math for business. He won’t have to alternate math courses.
@AZUndecided2020 Just an FYI, only courses taken at PSU are considered for those 44-59 credits that you need to apply for Smeal major. My son has about 10 AP credits that he will be coming in with. They are not used to calculate the 44-59 credits. I know it’s a little confusing. I know my son will be double majoring in finance/accounting. I also know he can choose a minor if he wants.
@japsmom am I misinterpreting the link below; regarding GPA for entrance to major?
http://ugstudents.smeal.psu.edu/academics-advising/get-into-a-smeal-major/pre-major-planning
@japsmom it appears that your link is for students entering PSU in 2014; I don’t think that is applicable for either your son or AZU2020’s.
@PennsyDad Yes, I apologize. It does say 3.2/3.5 in entrance to major courses.
@AZUndecided2020 my son is just finishing up his first year at PSU in Smeal. He was accepted into Arizona as transfer for next year (also one other school). I am not sure he is transferring, but probably 70-80% chance.
One thing that I did learn from visiting PSU a million times and speaking with professors and advisors, is that, Smeal rules are constantly changing from year to year. My sons friend graduated in 2014 from Smeal with the same major that my son wants to do and I know the information is different. Also, after speaking with the finance professor, he thinks that with my son the gpa for finance will be switching to a 3.6. He said too many students applying for finance. At least his back up plan is Accounting!
I did notice on the website that requirements have changed year to year - that’s a good point.
This link indicates that you cannot double major within Smeal, I wonder if this is a new policy due to the mentioned “enrollment control standards.”
http://ugstudents.smeal.psu.edu/academics-advising/degree-requirements/concurrent-majors
@PennsyDad why is your son seeking to transfer?
@AZUndecided2020 He is looking at Arizona and South Carolina. I am not thrilled about it, but he is just not happy at PSU. He is very outgoing, but it just did not click with him; unfortunately.
Daughter came down to the same 2 schools, although she did not have a scholarship at Miami. For a long time Miami was her No. 1 school. She went to visit and loved the campus. She was originally deferred and then accepted at Miami. She ultimately has decided to attend Penn State. It feels like home to her. She believes it’s a better fit for her and what she wants to do. Her decision surprised me as she was a Miami lean.
They are very different schools. Hopefully, your son has visited both. Either way, the business programs at both schools are excellent and he can’t make a wrong decision here.
Thanks for all the helpful comments. To update, my son committed to Miami today. He did visit both and was torn, but ultimately the tipping points were the flexibility of the curriculum at Miami, the use of his AP credits to fulfill cognate requirements, and the ability to double-major within the business school.
@AZUndecided2020 best of luck to the family. Hope he finds his niche and is happy.