<p>There are several schools in the Big Ten that many people pass on the schools you listed to go to. I'm sure you get just as good of an education at Michigan, Wisconsin, etc..as you do at Harvard. The difference is that you pay the ivy league price. I love these Ivy League people that I meet that believe themselves to be smarter than anyone they have ever met. You know, a lot of people go to great public schools and do just fine. As for the reference to your cousin, your ONE cousin that works for ONE part of google meets people that went to these schools. Wow, I had to take a step back from the computer with that one. Your cousin at one major company has met at least 10 people and NONE of them went to Penn State. You're right, pretty representative sample. Everyone, if you didn't get into "Stanford, Berkeley COE, Duke Pratt, Caltech, Princeton, Columbia Fu, etc." you should probably end your life now. You have no financial future. Newsflash, google is quite large. I am sure there are plenty of people from Penn State, as well as people from many of the other top publics, that work at google and many other major companies, "dude".</p>
<p>jec7483, I don't think you read correctly the post you were criticizing. Read it again, and Good Luck to you.</p>
<p>cervantes, the post I was addressing was removed.</p>
<p>
You get it! You get the entire evidence on this topic, but completely draw the wrong conclusion. The education may very well be the same between Harvard and a big Ten school. What is different is the prestige and the quality of students. Both of these give you a major advantage later in life....since in the end its not really about the education at all which is very comparable, but the possibility for future opportunities. Harvard gives that far more than a big 10 school can, so pick Harvard. Also when did this thread come to be about engineering. He said overall...and overall duke is far better than Penn state</p>
<p>I hate both schools. I couldn't possibly pick between them, so neither.</p>
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prestige and the quality of students. Both of these give you a major advantage later in life
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<p>I can confirm from experience that Bescraze is totally correct.</p>
<p>I had a brother who went to Duke and he always talked about the quality of the students. In his senior year physics class he got to sit beside a student with a 2350 SAT score. Even as a freshman he sat beside a HS valedictorian. Bringing those facts up in his first job interview immediately convinced the interviewer of his qualifications, landing him a sweet job right out of school.</p>
<p>^ The interviewer was impressed by that?</p>
<p>Sheesh - I would have been totally turned-off (any interviewer worth his/her salt wouldn't be impressed by such anecdotes).</p>
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Harvard gives that far more than a big 10 school can, so pick Harvard.
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<p>You know, NU is a B10 school - and while yes, Harvard has an "edge" - it's not quite "far more".</p>
<p>And there is something to be said of the huge alumni networks B10 schools (and other large state schools) have.</p>
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I had a brother who went to Duke and he always talked about the quality of the students. In his senior year physics class he got to sit beside a student with a 2350 SAT score. Even as a freshman he sat beside a HS valedictorian.
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<p>Are you serious? That could happen at any college...</p>
<p>"The education may very well be the same between Harvard and a big Ten school. What is different is the prestige and the quality of students. Both of these give you a major advantage later in life....since in the end its not really about the education at all which is very comparable, but the possibility for future opportunities." </p>
<p>When did the quality of the education not become the reason for school? I am far from an idealist, but THAT'S the reason you go. You go to learn, not just because your diploma says Harvard. I hate to break it to you, but the prestige thing isn't real. You remind of the jock in high school that believed his "popularity" was something tangible thing. It's the people that actually learn and can apply the information that benefit the most, and, as you said they are very comparable, why pay three times as much to get the same education. For example, I don't think that it is a mistake if someone passes on Harvard to go to Michigan. Please don't give me the "connections" bit. There are plenty of very wealthy people that attend Big Ten schools. I am not saying there are no poor people that attend Big Ten schools, but I'm sure the poor somehow make it in past the other legacies. The only people obsessed with prestige are the peolpe that base their whole sense of self on it, that's all. That seems to be a big reason behind CC, so the people can come on here and give themselves virtual pats on the pack. The kids that did nothing but study all high school post their numbers so people will praise them for it. Ok, I am getting off on a tangent. Anyway, I took the conclusion that I agree with, that you get try the best, how much you learn, undergraduate education that you can at the best price. </p>
<p>Nesquik, the new SAT format with the ability to make over a 1600 came out in 2005. It sounds like your brother was taking freshman or sophomore physics as a senior, so not sure how he landed that great job. Also, there are valedictorians that go to every school. We are talking the top public schools. I am not trying to make a case for Devry or ITT Tech. I had a girl in my psychology class that got a 1580 on the SAT. I am sure there were plenty of other people that did well, but I just don't go asking people's scores. Honestly, your brother has been feeding you the Kool-Aid.</p>
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There are plenty of very wealthy people that attend Big Ten schools
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<p>A friend of mine who goes to Indiana is a part owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers.</p>
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I had a brother who went to Duke and he always talked about the quality of the students. In his senior year physics class he got to sit beside a student with a 2350 SAT score. Even as a freshman he sat beside a HS valedictorian.
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I wasn't being serious. I was just using a sarcastic anecdote to debate Bescraze's argument about student quality being more important than education quality.</p>
<p>I thought the sarcasm was pretty evident. My mistake if I misled anyone.</p>
<p>It's tough to know if people are being sarcastic on here. Sorry.</p>
<p>Yeah, at first it was hard to tell it was sarcasm but when you say "I had a brother" rather than "my brother" generally there's the giveaway. As to answer this thread, I'd think the majority, dare I say vast majority, of students would choose Duke for undergrad over Penn State, finances notwithstanding, even if they wish to major in engineering, even if they got into Penn State's Honor College. Also, Duke's <em>undergrad</em> is of the highest tier (along with a lot of other colleges), Penn State doesn't make the cut here.</p>
<p>I'm going to attend PSU - UP so I might as well add my 2 cents. I have a few of friends who opted for Duke so I certainly don't mean to downplay its reputation, but just to bring some thoughts to the table regarding larger schools.</p>
<p>Something that many people don't seem to realize is what a large population implies. Using CB's posted stats, for example:
25% of PSU had SAT CR/M of 630+/670+. That's 9300 students in each.
75% of D had 660+/680+. That's 4800 students in each.</p>
<p>Now, there isn't necessarily an even spread but it's not like Duke is filled with 800s while PSU's scores at the top necessarily clumps around the lower 700s -- and is even that that much of a difference? The difference between 630/660 is 85th vs 90th percentile. If you are looking for studious, motivated people, then there is no doubt that they can be found in large numbers at both schools, even if it's a lower percent at PSU if you want to use the SAT as an indicator of studiousness.</p>
<p>The effect of sheer population is apparent when looking at things such as diversity as well. I sure as hell, if I want to join club of some ethnic group, or feel like hooking up with a member of some such group, etc., will find more people within that population -- meaning, of course, more diversity within the group -- at PSU than at Duke.</p>
<p>This is, of course, not to say that Duke kids overall are not more intellectual or diverse (esp. geographically) than PSU students -- but it's something worth thinking about in considering the social atmosphere that you can encounter at each university.</p>
<p>I attended a highly selective high school (1200-1300 SAT average). I got, frankly, sick of it. Study, study, study. No drugs or drinking. (Not that I advocate either). All boring. No crazy sex parties (lol). I WANT to attend, for college, a place that has (not exclusively) relatively "normal" people with terrestrial accomplishments. I have no interest in MIT-esque places just because they're "prestigious." This becomes even more reasonable when you are absolutely set on grad school -- I can always go to someplace more reputable for my grad studies as long as I do well in an environment I enjoy in my undergrad years.</p>
<p>I hate small classes and small schools. I want to meet lots of new faces. Why would I attend a college barely twice the size of HS? And some majors simply do not require a "strong program" -- undergrad math, for example, can be learned anywhere. I have NO interest, as a possible math major, of going to an expensive "academically superior" school purely for academics when I can buy a book and use OCW. If you're doing biomed and need lab resources and available faculty, that's a different story.</p>
<p>Now, the academics/fun dichotomy obviously does not apply to Duke so much as other top-tier schools but it's still worth keeping in mind.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: the above is my opinion. If you wish, pretend the statements are prefaced with "in general" and other such qualifiers.</p>
<p>Cervantes,
The OP specifically mentioned he was considering them for grad school.</p>
<p>edit: never mind, didn't know nesquik was being sarcastic</p>
<p>Oh well, for grad school, then its up to fit/fellowship $$/reputation of the program, though I'm not sure how important fit is when you're a grad student lol.</p>
<p>^Not so important -- grad students don't have lives. :)</p>