Hello. I am looking at Penn State- University Park and University of Michigan- Ann Arbor for aerospace engineering. Both schools seem like they offer fairly good programs, and I would probably try to attend the honors college at either school. I have read some articles that say recruiters for aerospace engineering rate PSU highest, but Umich is rated higher by US News. What are your opinions on either program and which school do recruiters focus more on?
Note that I live in Pennsylvania, and I have the credentials that I would probably get into both schools. Other schools that I looked at include University of Maryland, Purdue, and RPI.
I would question whether UM is worth an extra $23K / yr for OOS tuition over PS - that’s over 100K if you stay for 4.5 years. It’s the best of the schools you’ve listed. I would save the money for grad school. You’ll need a PhD or an MBA to advance in engineering and the $100K would cover most of it.
I have taken all of the advanced math courses that I can take in my high school up to Calc 2. I took that AP calc AB exam and received a 5. This year, I plan to take the BC exam as well as the AP Physics C exam. I am also taking a statistics course at Desales university and hope to take a calc 3 course at Desales or Moravian next semester. I believe that these things would make me competitive for PSU’s engineering program.
Do you really think I would need a PhD in aerospace engineering? I have done some searching and found that it wouldn’t really make much of a difference in getting hired anyway. And the extra time spent at school really wouldn’t make much of a difference in my career. Am I wrong to think this?
Basically in this thread I am trying to figure out if Umich is even worth it with the jump in tuition. I am also trying to figure out which school recruiters prefer more. Thanks again!
Run the EFC calculator to see how much Michigan would cost you relative to Penn State, though keep in mind it’s only an estimate. Michigan has been improving its financial aid lately and may be an affordable option. If it’s affordable, why not go ahead and apply? It’s on the Common App with a fairly easy supplement, so it’s not very difficult.
You can decide between the two (and any other options) in the spring when you have your acceptance and aid offers in hand.
Why someone said you need graduate school (“You’ll need a PhD or an MBA to advance in engineering and the $100K would cover most of it.”)is beyond me. No, most engineering students don’t go to grad or business school. Further, students in doctoral programs typically attend without having to pay tuition-they usually have tuition remission and a stipend on top of that.
FWIW, USNWR rates Michigan higher not only overall, but also for its undergraduate aerospace engineering program.
Penn State seems to appeal to college recruiters in general (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704358904575477643369663352).
What articles suggest they favor PSU for aerospace in particular?
If they do, does it mean they think PSU trains better engineers?
Or is PSU simply a more convenient recruiting source, for some reason?
What state do you live in?
Michigan’s sticker price is about $10K/y more for OOS students than Penn State’s.
The difference is even greater if you’re comparing in-state rates at one school to OOS at the other.
State universities usually don’t grant much need-based aid to OOS students.
So you should ask yourself if any differences in the magazine rankings (or recruiter survey results) are worth a big cost difference. Keep in mind that many students change majors, and that many students take more than 4 years to graduate (which can drive up their costs).
Why don’t you run the NPC on both and ask your parents if they can afford either one?
If they can, apply to both.
Remember you MUST apply to Penn State/Schreyer before Nov 30 and keep in mind that odds of admission are about 1 in 10.
What are your other choices?
Michigan’s total CoA is $25K more per year than PSU’s in-state tuition; that’s $100K more over four years, as someone pointed out. There’s no engineering job that is going to pay you $100K more because you went to Michigan as opposed to PSU; there’s no engineering job that’s going to even pay you a $2,500 premium for a Michigan degree vs. a Penn State degree, which is what you would need per year over a 40-year career to make Michigan worth it. Several parents here on CC who hire engineers have said that engineers make the same amount no matter what school they come from.
Now your other question is whether recruiters “prefer” one school over the other. This is an impossible question to answer, because every company and recruiter is different - some recruiters may prefer Michigan and others may prefer Penn State. Moreover, though, it doesn’t matter. The question that really matters is whether Penn State gets enough excellent recruiters for great jobs at great companies to satisfy your needs. The answer is a resounding yes - PSU is an excellent university with truly huge career fairs that attract lots of great companies. It doesn’t matter whether Michigan’s is slightly better, particularly given that PSU is so much cheaper. (However, I’m willing to bet that Michigan’s is NOT better - they’re probably about the same).
I joke a lot that half my friends are Michigan grads and the other half are Penn State grads. But in seriousness, I went to grad school at Columbia, and I met lots of Penn State grads (and Michigan grads) who were doing amazing things. Their alumni network is huge, and they are super dedicated to it. you’ll be fine at Penn State and will save a boatload of money.
I agree with @warblersrule about running the NPCs for both schools. Michigan for a high stats, low income PA student may be less costly than Penn State, due to Penn State’s notoriously poor need-based and merit aid and Michigan’s much better aid for low income students (even OOS). However, if the family income is higher, Penn State at full price will be much less expensive than Michigan at full OOS cost. I agree that the OP should apply to both and compare financial aid offers. Both Michigan and Penn State have excellent engineering schools.
FWIW, US News ranks both Michigan and Penn State (but not Columbia) in its top 15 for undergraduate aerospace/aeronautical/astronomical engineering. Is there some better arbiter that places Michigan and Columbia (but not PSU) at about the same level for undergraduate programs in this field?
For graduate programs, the NRC/Chronicle ranks Michigan #2 (tied) and PSU #9 by “S-Rank High”.
Michigan ranks from #2 to #12, PSU from #4 to #23, in the other NRC ranking factors.
That doesn’t look like a huge difference to me (not in the face of major cost differences anyway).
Columbia is not ranked at all in this field.
@julliet - numbers matter especially if you are trying to approximate ROI.
It is not about sticker price, that means nothing
op needs to compare his/her actual cost for UM/PSU
Income is somewhat predicated to geography so where the OP works will impact earnings. So if Michigan has a stronger network with employers in say the Silicon Valley, where PSU is stronger in Pennsylvania . . . Well those outcomes are far different
Which school is a better launching pad to grad school
Today they may be thinking Aerospace, but that could change at least once before graduation within engineering, or outside engineering.
“FWIW, US News ranks both Michigan and Penn State (but not Columbia) in its top 15 for undergraduate aerospace/aeronautical/astronomical engineering. Is there some better arbiter that places Michigan and Columbia (but not PSU) at about the same level for undergraduate programs in this field?”
My comment in post #12 was in response to post #10. I never stated that Columbia was better/worse than PSU for engineering. They are not as strong in this area as Michigan and PSU. My comment was that, as a whole, Michigan and Columbia are close overall academic peers. If the OP decided to change majors/careers, they would more than likely have a very strong program in whatever he/she decided to study at U-M or Columbia. That’s the beauty of attending a school like Michigan; highly ranked overall with almost no academic weakness. There are very few schools who can make that claim.
From an employment perspective, it simply doesn’t matter. Both are good schools and most employers couldn’t care less about rankings. The new Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenberg got his B.A. in aerospace engineering from Iowa State, and his Master’s in Aeronautics and Astronautics from University of WA. The CEO of Lockheed Martin went to Univ. of AL.
However if you are still concern, you could check with the career placement office at each college to see which companies recruit there, and the success of their graduates in getting jobs with those companies.