Penn VIPER dual degree vs. UC Berkeley EECS

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Hi guys I'm currently choosing between these two colleges and their respective programs. I really don't know where to go at this point since both programs are really attractive. One main deterring factor is that Penn is not known for it's engineering as much as Berkeley, but I feel that Penn will open me up to a lot of opportunities in the energy research field. Plus, high professor interaction and the lack of a cutthroat nature are two really compelling factors. Moreover, I loved being on the Penn campus and I felt like home here.</p>

<p>However, Berkeley is the better engineering school and is notorious for EECS. Due to it's location in the Silicon Valley, I know that job opportunities are really high with this degree, but I am worried about the level of competition, and I know that VIPER is the better program for me to get into a good grad school. The lower GPA at Berkeley is a huge deterring factor, and I don't want to get screwed for grad school.</p>

<p>If money is not an issue, then which would be the better program for me? Also, I am flexible with jobs, and I am perfectly okay with not working a completely technical job. Thanks for the help.</p>

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<p>also Penn allowed me to extend my SIR deadline to May 5, so I still have five more days to make a decision. Any help will be appreciated.</p>

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<p>Have you considered class size and the over enrollment issue at Berkeley? I’ve read that some students can’t get the classes they need to graduate at Berkeley. EECS can take 5 years at Cal because of scheduling problems.</p>

<p>Take a look a Penn’s class size limits for Chemistry 101, Physics 151, etc. and compare them to the corresponding ones at Berkeley with 500+ students. (Berkeley often enrolls more than the stated limits.)</p>

<p><a href=“Office of the University Registrar | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs”>Office of the University Registrar | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs;

<p>Penn even does a better job than Princeton in terms of keeping class sizes down.</p>

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<p>^yeah that’s definitely one other factor about berkeley that i don’t like. i know that berkeley engineers earn quite a bit, but i feel that VIPER will immerse me more in academia and will lead me on a route to get a PhD better than berkeley will. is that something i should focus on as an undergrad or can that wait?</p>

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<p>Penn if you want more options, Berkeley if you are sure engineering is what you are sure you want to do (I am assuming you are instate so that one year more that might be needed won’t really cost you THAT MUCH).</p>

<p>Fair warning though, so many people drop out of engineering, I would really consider taking a step back and deciding what you want to do.</p>

<p>(^My opinion, not fact).</p>

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<p>“However, Berkeley is the better engineering school and is notorious for EECS. Due to it’s location in the Silicon Valley, I know that job opportunities are really high with this degree, but I am worried about the level of competition, and I know that VIPER is the better program for me to get into a good grad school. The lower GPA at Berkeley is a huge deterring factor, and I don’t want to get screwed for grad school.”</p>

<p>Berkeley undergraduate students can’t compete with Penn’s. Berkeley is a top place for grad school and for faculty members. However, the whole notion grad school and faculty research strength trickles down to the large undergrad population and programs at state university is a bogus.</p>

<p>Take a look at Berkeley’s placement statistics:</p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>43% of EECS grads report information to career services. Why? Of those 20% are seeking employment - very unimpressive! This clearly doesn’t support that “job opportunities are really high with this degree.” Then, look at what jobs EECS take, of those few that not attending grad school or “seeking employment”, and you’ll see almost all are high-paying CS jobs and very few in EE areas. Why?</p>

<p>Compare with Penn placement:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/SEASSurvey2013.pdf”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/SEASSurvey2013.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>95.6% of all engineering grads report to career services. Of those only 3.9% are seeking employment. Of those that take CS jobs the average is over $90,000 which is the going rate for high tech programming jobs.</p>

<p>There’s no doubt that Berkeley EECS is one of the best deals going for in-state residents at a public university. However, there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors to Berkeley.</p>

<p>Lastly, the VIPER program is one involving energy research and a dual major and degree in science and engineering. It involves taking a fairly heavy load at Penn. Why compare this program and where it may lead to one at Berkeley that is seemingly heavily CS based?</p>

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<p>@rhg3rd you bring up a great point. i never realized that till now.</p>

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<p>I agree with rhg3rd.</p>

<p>The claim that Berkeley is better because of the Silicon Valley has no supporting data. I expressed the similar idea in some other threads. Berkeley does not own Silicon Valley. Graduates from some other distant colleges have more job placement in Silicon Valley than Berkeley graduates.</p>

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<p>There was a survey that the CS major at Berkeley makes more money than EECS at Berkeley.
<a href=“Undergrad CS - Starting Salaries. Why the huge difference between colleges? - #18 by garggaurav - Engineering Majors - College Confidential Forums”>Undergrad CS - Starting Salaries. Why the huge difference between colleges? - #18 by garggaurav - Engineering Majors - College Confidential Forums;

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<p>Woah, I never read the details and always assumed Berkeley Engineering > All in silicon valley :o I myself came here to advice him to choose Berkeley if he was sure of engineering.</p>

<p>Quite an eye-opening post, @rhg3rd‌ </p>

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<p>You mentioned being concerned about the average gpa at Berkeley. I would point out that the average gpa may be higher at Penn, but the average student is also stronger, so it may not be easier to earn grades at Penn.</p>

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<p>^Your post absolutely makes no sense. I thought that is what Harvard told everybody why they hand out easy As. If the average student is stronger at Penn then an average grade at Penn should reflect that, ie a B is like an A every where else. </p>

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<p>I looked at the Penn career survey compare to Berkeley, even though Berkeley has 43% they are mostly in high-tech, while Penn has some defense companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, SAIC. Penn has mostly financial firms versus Berkeley.</p>

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<p>Dr Google:
A “B” at Penn may be like an “A” at some other schools for an individual student. That is correct. However the average gpa may still be higher than other schools because the ability of the average student is higher.</p>

<p>The point is that assuming that a higher average gpa means that it will be easier to earn good grades is not a good assumption since the student bodies are different.</p>

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<p>rhg3rd, </p>

<p>the Berkeley data are self-reported and incomplete. Those 9 guys I know from EECS who are now at Goldman Sachs aren’t on the published data yet. So are those alumni who are doing postgrad studies at MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Berkeley, Princeton and Caltech, which account for about 15% of the grad population. </p>

<p>The 20% seeking employment could be interpreted in many different ways. It could be that those students aren’t ready to work yet. Those students are traveling abroad (taking a vacation in Europe or Asia. I know a lot of Berkeley grads who did that right after graduation.) </p>

<p>The EECS at Berkeley is a top program. EECS grads are quite picky, many do start ups or into VC. The offers are plentiful for them and they’re aware about that, that’s why they’re not always in a hurry looking for jobs. As a whole, Berkeley’s EECS grads are the highest paid in the nation, enjoying a starting salary of $92,621. I doubt any program at Penn (Wharton included) can come close to that. </p>

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<p>@RML those are pretty good points actually. Do you know where else Berkeley students go for grad school?</p>

<p>Since the course load at Penn is pretty high, that almost nullifies the competitive nature in Berkeley. However, research is still another thing that Penn is winning out on. If I go to Berkeley, it’ll be awesome to get noticed by faculty over there (esp since a good lot of them are Nobel Laureates) and do research with them. However, are there opportunities at Berkeley to do research at the undergrad level?</p>

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<p>From what I have gathered, most of those who pursued MS/PhD in EECS or EE or CS ended up doing it at Stanford, Berkeley, MIT and CMU, with a considerable number of them doing it at Caltech, Princeton and Cambridge and Imperial in the UK. </p>

<p>

I’m not sure about that. I know everyone at the EECS dept At Cal is encouraged to get involved in research, and those who have the time and interest to do it always ended up getting in to a team of top-class researchers, many of them are paired or grouped with postgrad researchers and/or a world-class faculty. A number of them are paid internships too, so you will have a chance to earn whilst still an undergrad student. And, always remember that the level of research done at Berkeley is higher, better-funded and more significant than those done at UPenn. Berkeley has an incubator for such high-profiled research works, too. It’s near to SV, the center of IT incubators in the universe. Has programs tied with Haas, the business school of Berkeley.
At Berkeley EECS, you will always have a chance to mingle, interact, collaborate and paired with grad/postgrad students who mostly are the best in the field as Berkeley EECS postgrad students are some of the very best in the entire nation and world, whereas at UPenn, the quality of their postgrad students are not as talented. </p>

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<p>Many of Berkeley EECS grad/postgrad students are the top students of Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, Berkeley, Yale, CMU, Cambridge and Oxford. Berkeley postgrad EECS competes vigorously with those programs at Stanford, Harvard and MIT. Those are the kind of students you will mingle with everyday when you go to Berkeley undergrad and get involved in research works, which many undergrad students currently do. You’ll work, collaborate and learn with them together. They will become your friends and contacts for life. You’ll most likely going to start up a company together, become famous and earn millions later together. Can’t say the same thing for Penn. </p>