To be clear I’m talking the University of Pennsylvania and Washington University in St. Louis since both have a bit of an identity crisis. Also, please don’t just say Penn because US News rankings…
Brown was my top choice and I got waitlisted. I’m still fighting to get in but if you guys think Penn or washu would be better then lmk! I’m not holding out too much hope knowing waitlist acceptance rates.
So I’m a neuroscience (or maybe psychology) major on premed who also wants to do classical studies. I want to become a psychiatrist, probably through an MD/PhD program so research, shadowing, advising, etc is key. I’m a very introspective person with eclectic intellectual tastes like poetry, history, biology, and art. Also, a strong LGBT presence is important. I’m gay, white, male, middle class on financial aid. Let me give you the rundown of my thoughts:
NOTE: the cost of all schools are both affordable and comparable, quite luckily.
Penn
Pros:
offered a spot as a Ben Franklin Scholar (interdisciplinary honors program essentially)
my favorite urban environment of the three
arguably most prestigious
perelman has a lab that studies my exact (prospective) research interests as a psychiatrist, addiction and schizophrenia comorbidity (I cited this on my application and I think it’s a big reason they took me)
seems more diverse than Wash U (but I can’t tell by how much really)
Cons (many are stereotypes but that’s why I’m asking):
stress culture and supposed lack of emphasis on student mental health. I’m a very strong student but my mental health has always been in a bit of Flux
cutthroat and very preprofessional (I have clear preprofessional goals but I do want my undergrad to be a bit more about personal development and intellectual curiosity)
SORRY IF THIS SOUNDS MEAN but I tend to find people really into finance kind of grating. Along those lines there seems to be a good bit of snooty rich frat white boy type beat. Nothing too wrong with that but I feel like it’s a bigger part of the culture than I’d like.
Wash U
Pros:
GREAT amenities and facilities (south 40, dorms, food, campus-- I’m offered a single, which I love)
lots of student funding (between the free $1k for a laptop, the cheap study abroad, or whatever else)
keeps up very well with Penn for neuroscience, psychology, and premed. They seem essentially tied
I like the park next to campus a lot
the environment seems very friendly and down to earth
more undergrad focused and the advising seems extremely thorough
Cons:
the last place I would have wished to go to school would be the American Midwest and I am not a fan of st louis at all. Just being honest
even more Greek than Penn (although it seems more isolated from the rest of social life, I can’t tell)
not drivable from home (Penn and especially brown are)
this is petty but I really do not like the name, colors, insignia, all of that.
I feel that I have two great choices but I really want to make the one that is right for me. Thanks!
I can’t speak to academics, but my kid is in grad school at Wash U and really enjoys St Louis. Delmar Loop neighborhood has great music venues, restaurants, shops, the Zoo and Forest Park are great, and there’s baseball. The city just elected its first African American, female mayor. I’m from Philly, and love it, but the slower pace (and affordability) of midwest cities has its appeal.
I am a native of Saint Louis and a graduate of Penn and based on your academic and personal situation, I highly recommend Penn (with no consideration to reputation).
As a pre-med, you will find a competitive environment anywhere as you compete with other pre-meds for scarce A grades. You may also have to compromise your intellectual curiosity because you may feel that you need to avoid courses that risk a B or lower grade.
I had a fabulous experience at WashU, but it seems like your heart is really pulling you toward Penn, so I say follow it! The Ben Franklin scholars program sounds like a great intellectual fit and community, and you have a good shot at working in a lab in your field of interest. I’d agree that the diversity (of all types) is probably fairly similar at both, and there will be plenty of people who aren’t focused on finance/Greek life at both (just a heads up, there was a big drop in Greek life participation at WashU last year after discussions about social justice & inclusivity, it’s still shaking out though).
Particularly if you’ve grown up envisioning yourself going to college in the Northeast (Penn, Brown, etc), it might be hard to adjust that vision unless there’s something else you really want that only WashU has. I’m from the Bay Area and knew I wanted to explore another part of the country, so St. Louis was a great adventure for me – I liked it so much I stayed for several years after graduating! But Philly is an equally fun/interesting/troubled city, with an affordable cost of living & plenty to do – and it’s more conveniently located to DC and NYC if you’d prefer to go there for weekend trips instead of Chicago or Nashville.
I don’t think you can go wrong with either (or Brown) as long as you go in with a positive mindset and willingness to find where you fit! Good luck!
Penn because you hit the jackpot in finding a lab with the precise area that you want to study. Plus, it is clear that you do not want to be in St. Louis.
The stress factor at Penn is real, but still something within the control of the individual. If you want to be a psychiatrist, you need to learn how to manage & minimize or avoid stress.
On the other hand, a single room on a beautiful campus is tempting.
Since you’re in Ben Franklin Scholars, you’ll have a residential community with like-minded (not finance-minded) students. There are also artsy, low key “Houses” like Gregory and even a 1st year community dedicated to mental health and low stress.
The fact you know what you’re interested in and Penn has the exact lab would be hard to turn down, and you sound like you don’t want St Louis but would rather like Philly. I could try to argue St Louis is terrific (lots of cool things to do) but really I’m not sure it’s all that useful because when I read your presentation it seemed that you really like Penn better. The only thing that gave me pause is the mention of the better FA package at WashU, which I assume is need based.
BTW, if the financial aid package at WashU is better and you prefer Penn, you can send them a copy of the WashU package and indicate “I would really like to attend Penn because … … … but my parents are pushing me to accept WashU because it’s cheaper; I was wondering if there’s any way you could come halfway to help me show Penn is as affordable?” Obviously, ONLY do that if you truly WILL attend if they offer you a better FA package, it’s not a negociation.