Penna. Governor Proposes 50% Funding Cut to All State Universities

Paying for College
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<p>There are variable and fixed costs to running a university. There are a thousand ways to calculate average costs. If an out of state is paying a large share of the fixed costs and all of the marginal costs, then they are effectively helping to subsidize the in-state students. Pitt and Penn State’s out of state tuition costs are similar to many other nearby public universities.</p>

<p>Penn State and Pitt continue to retain their position across the US among public colleges in having the 1st and 2nd highest in-state tuition rates.</p>

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<p>PA already has high state college costs especially for its top state schools. My cousins whose son is going through the app process this year, have pretty much “gotten it” that they are not going to get any financial aid other than loans, and that without borrowing, the state schools are about all they can afford. Barely, and probably with some loans after all. A substantial increase in state college prices will mean that their son will not be going away to college, and he will have to go to a local state school and commute. This is a situation that may be affecting many families all over the country.</p>

<p>In NY, our state universities have very reasonable tuition costs, but the room and board charges are very high, especially compared to those of southern schools,and this cost has risen sharply in the past few years. What this means is that more kids will be commuting, a model that is more typical for most of the world. Perhaps if more families chose this option, the colleges will manage to come up with some cost effective boarding options for the students.</p>

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<p>

If? Without a source indicating that OOS students are “paying a large share of the fixed costs and all of the marginal costs” how can you be certain that OOS students are being charged more than what it actually costs to educate them at PSU & Pitt?</p>

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<p>You need to find what Pitt attributes as the cost to educating a student each year. Most colleges operate on a loss per student. In the case of state schools, the OOS premium often makes it less of a loss rather than a profit. Pitt’s OOS premium is not bad, in my opinion, $10K.</p>

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<p>Penn State for example charges an average of $27K for out of state tuition for undergrads. </p>

<p>There would be many different ways to allocate various costs to come up with different conclusions regarding costs per undergrad student. However, considering the large class sizes in many cases, an out of state student is probably covering all of their marginal costs, plus a disproportionate amount of the fixed costs of running a university. U. Park is now 1/3 out of state.</p>

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<p>I got no financial aid when I went to college. My parents paid CASH to send me to a private university.</p>

<p>All I know is that if the UAW didn’t make sure that my father was compensated for all the very hard work that he did, I probably would not have gone to college</p>

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<p>

Agreed and considerably different than stating that OOS students “subsidize” in-state student tuition by paying more than what it costs to educate them.

</p>

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<p>"Penn State’s appropriation, Spanier said, is used primarily to make tuition more affordable for Pennsylvania residents. Essentially, it’s the difference between the in-state and out-of-state tuition rates. “Out-of-state students,” Spanier said, “already pay full price for their education.”
[Spanier</a> Vows to “Vigorously Fight” State Budget Cut The Penn Stater Magazine](<a href=“http://pennstatermag.com/2011/03/09/spanier-vows-to-vigorously-fight-state-budget-cut/]Spanier”>http://pennstatermag.com/2011/03/09/spanier-vows-to-vigorously-fight-state-budget-cut/)</p>

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<p>Interesting, 1moremom. Spanier’s comment seems to indicate that the cost to educate a student at Penn State is precisely what the OOS tution cost is. That is not the way it works in many states. Some states charge a premium too OOSers and still don’t make up the gap on the true cost, I know. There are some schools that charge such a high OOS premium that the cost to go to such school as an OOSer is similar to that of a private university. UMichigan, UVA are some examples &lt;/p>

<p>For my son to go to Pitt as an OOSer, it would be about double the cost for him over going to a SUNY and boarding there. The cost of Pitt right now is about $10K more for an OOSer, however, due to the steep PA state tuition. </p>

<p>I wonder what the colleges will do? Will they increase the OOS rates to try to make up some of the deficit? The problem with that strategy is that there really are not that many OOS kids going to those schools, so it is not going to bridge the gap.</p>

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<p>They will cut programs, cut services, perhaps close branch campuses and raise tuition. Whether they raise OOS tuition significantly remains to be seen. It seems likely to me that the finally amount of the state allocation will be larger than what Corbett originally put forward. PSU has too much support within the state for him to be totally unwilling to compromise.</p>

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<p>If Penn State and Pitt want to continue to attract quality out of state students, they probably can’t increase the out of state tuition much more. Pitt already gives $10,000 of merit financial aid to many top out of state students to get them to attend Pitt.</p>

<p>If they want to pressure the legislature, they will announce a large increase in the in-state tuition. To be more fair, I’d expect they would hammer incoming students, vs. the existing students. That is what some other colleges did when they had a big tuition increase - they only applied the large increase to the new students.</p>

<p>I’d expect Pitt and Penn State would also emphasize most of the tuition increase to the main campuses, because there is so much demand for them. They can’t increase the branch tuition much because it is so much more expensive than the state-owned universities and because many people aren’t willing to spend 2 years at a branch until they get to the main campus. Also, many people turn down the branches when they find out the severe shortage of housing even for freshman.</p>

<p>I can also see Pitt and Penn State creating more variation in tuition among majors. For example, Pitt already charges more for nursing and could charge much more, because they are known for having one of the best programs in the US. Likewise, Penn State could increase their engineering and business tuition at U. Park and have no shortage of applicants. It can also be rationalized because business and engineering typically costs more per student than liberal arts.</p>

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<p>Charlie, the problem is that PA is already charging top dollar among state schools for Penn State and Pitt. Yes, they will probably increase the tuition even more than scheduled for both instate and out of state kids. The top students that Pitt tends to get are Chancellor Scholars and do get merit awards. Perhaps by charging a heftier OOS preemium, they can get some additional monies. The problem is if you look at the % of OOS kids, even increasing the cost to close to private school costs is not going generate that much money. There aren’t enough kids. You have to consider that a portion of those kids are athletes or merit scholars who the schools have recrutied and they would not be paying more in any case. An OOS premium would affect kids like mine who would love to go to either school, and the current OOS cost is just about what is affordable to us. If increased to the point where it approaches private school prices, it would be in competition with them. It’s already approaching that point. Duquesne U is only a few thousand dollars more per year.</p>

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<p>But do you think Duquesne can offer a comparable education/experience? (I don’t mean this question disrespectfully; I don’t know anything about Duquesne U.)</p>

<p>I think part of PSU’s problem is that Graham Spanier has never met a program or building idea that he didn’t like. The College of IST (and its building), the law school, the Millennium Science Complex, the Forestry building, the new health center, the Blue Band building, the business building, the Stuckeman Family Building for Arts and Architecture. I think these have all been built in the last ten years. A new biobehavioral-health building and child care center are underway. I believe 10% of all tuition goes toward debt service.</p>

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<p>We looked at 3 Pittsburgh schools in one day, and the experience was very different at each one. We started at Duquesne which has the most compact campus and gave us the most personal tour. Son met with a business professor who spent a full hour going over the curriculum, opportunities and gave him personal attention. The school is small, and the residential area is altogether there. Did not like where it bordered, neighborhoodwise on one end, but the view of the South side on one side and its vicinity to downtown on the other was very nice. This was cozy, personal and someplace that you could really see your child mastering if he’s never been away from home. Full facilities but all right there.</p>

<p>Pitt was the best tour experience and my son liked it best. But he did not look hard at the stadium sized classes for intro courses. No real campus, lots of local students, and true city living. Not very personal. He loved the excitement and the beat, that the city is your campus and all of the city things at ones fingertips. That there is less of community and no targeted area did not worry him at all. I think it would make a great grad, prof school experience and if you live nearby, a comfortable step up into college, but to go there from the east coast when so many of the kids come from PA and know each other bothered me. It was definitely a machine at work atmosphere.</p>

<p>CMU was crossed off my son’s list. Not really a viable choice anyways in cost and in admissiosn anyways, so it was just as well. My son did not like the disparaty in the kids there, lack of community, the tour guide’s very obvious efforts to make the school seem fun when it was not. There was not the sense of cohesion and comfort that Duquesne had, nor the big city, big adventure feel of Pitt. Truly a school for someone who knows what s/he wants and is well focused on it. In many ways, it was the best school of the bunch in that it was an enclosed campus, yet still in the city, but the housing was scattered and there was not homey feeling at all, but one of efficiency and business. </p>

<p>CMU also comes in at the $50K mark while Pitt and Duqesne cost about the same. The individual attention and smaller size of Duquesne is what I liked about it. It seemed like everyone knew each other and the everything was so manageable. </p>

<p>Duquesne would join the ranks of a lot of the Catholic colleges such as John Carroll, Lemoyne, Manhattan, Loyola, Fairfield, Providence, Marist, Stonefield , St Michael’s, etc. Pitt is more a BU, NYU, Drexel type school. Very different experiences. For a good solid student with average test scores, still a bit green, these schools can be great matches. For those with higher stats, merit money offers exist.</p>

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<p>

It should be pointed out that CMU is actually across the street from Pitt and their campuses are next to each other.</p>

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<p>Yes, Pitt and CMU are right next to each other and even share some resources. A big difference is that CMU has a designated area for its campus whereas Pitt is spread out through the Oakland area of Pittsburgh. So there is a very different feel when walking from one building of each school to another. You can visually lift CMU and put the campus down pretty much intact anywhere but PItt is intricately interwoven with the city.</p>

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<p>[Kutztown</a> U. president: State cuts mean 32 percent tuition hike - mcall.com](<a href=“http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-corbett-budget-kutztown-president-20110315,0,2220262.story]Kutztown”>http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-corbett-budget-kutztown-president-20110315,0,2220262.story)</p>

<h2>The President of Kutztown University of PA. says a 32% tuition hike is likely if Corbett’s budget goes through. The cut would eliminate one-quarter of the university’s education budget.</h2>

<p>" the tour guide’s very obvious efforts to make the school seem fun when it was not."</p>

<p>I love the above quote about CMU. They have some top quality programs, a beautiful campus, but I didn’t encourage my son to apply there because of a feeling I got when I visited.</p>

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<p>Charlies,</p>

<p>I read the article. Tuition would rise to $7,685 annually. While that may be a 32% rise, I think the dollars are important too.</p>

<p>The title of the article lays this all on the governor. The article seems to indicate the tuition increase is also the result of the federal stimulus money running out.</p>

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<p>I found the math a little curious. So i did a little digging. I think the KU president is trying to make the impact sound worse than it is. Looks like the real dollar impact is around $1880. The 32% figure applies the entire increase to tuition. </p>

<p>If you consider tuition & fees (what a commuter would pay), the % impact reduces to 24%. If you count room/board, it comes down to 10.9%. </p>

<p>Still $1880 isnt chump change…</p>

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<p>No, $1880 is not chump change at all. For kids from families with low EFCs but not PELL eligible, even going to that school is going to be tough since the tuition exceeds the Stafford loan amount. That 's a large dollar increase, in my opinion when a family finds the current tuition level just doable. </p>

<p>Penn State and Pitt already have very high tuitions for in state universtiies. I am curious what the increase is going to be for them. A 20% increase is going to be putting their costs out of range for a lot of people. It’s already too high, in my opinion, for those with low EFCs.</p>