<p>But a decade ago, it was the worst Ivy. People above 25 years old all think I made some foolish error in transferring here from Cornell. It's actually making me feel kind of second-thoughtsy about the whole thing, which is ludicrous; when I was in HS, Penn was one of my top choices. So, where do we lie exactly, in terms of the whole Ivy thing, and will the trend continue up, or is Penn ultimately destined to fall back down?</p>
<p>Does it matter?</p>
<p>I am not an incoming freshman, but a waitlisted applicant and I'd kill to get off the waitlist, although the chances are getting slimmer by the day.</p>
<p>It doesn't matter if Penn lies at the bottom of the list in the eyes of others (though I highly doubt so), what really matters is if you know you're getting the education you've expected, and more.</p>
<p>All I need to do now is get off that bloody waitlist. Gah.</p>
<p>Ohhh you're just trying to start a rankings thread. Penn is in the middle of the Ivies...above some, below some. The upward trend will continue- Philadelphia is improving as a city and Penn's endowment is growing. Aside from engineering, most people would agree that it's a slightly better school than Cornell. (Cornell will probably never escape the title of lowest Ivy because of its state-funded colleges EWW STATE SCHOOL.) But really, which atmosphere will you be happier in? Because ultimately any difference between Ivies is SO slight compared to differences between the other thousands of colleges in the U.S.</p>
<p>For 11 straight years now, Penn has been ranked from #4 to #7 by US News:</p>
<p>U.S</a>. News Rankings Through the Years</p>
<p>And, the trend line is definitely pointing UP, and not down (lots of excitement with the ongoing $3.5 billion capital campaign, major campus expansion, endowment performance and growth, etc.).</p>
<p>Over time, Penn's rank as a top 5 or so school will continue to solidify in the minds of the relevant constituency, they'll forget about the days when Penn was less esteemed, and they'll stop questioning its top-5 status. Penn has made incredible strides with an extremely undersized endowment, and is known as the school that does more with less. Just imagine what it will be able to do with an endowment that's more in line with those of its peers.</p>
<p>Word. Thanks for the info.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ohhh you're just trying to start a rankings thread. Penn is in the middle of the Ivies...above some, below some. The upward trend will continue- Philadelphia is improving as a city and Penn's endowment is growing. Aside from engineering, most people would agree that it's a slightly better school than Cornell. (Cornell will probably never escape the title of lowest Ivy because of its state-funded colleges EWW STATE SCHOOL.) But really, which atmosphere will you be happier in? Because ultimately any difference between Ivies is SO slight compared to differences between the other thousands of colleges in the U.S.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would really have to disagree, the only thing that makes Penn even slightly reputable is Wharton. Everything else isn't nearly up to par as Cornell or the other ivies for that matter. Penn, is ranked highly because it plays the ranking game, no other reason - something Cornell refuses to become a part of. Additionally, Cornell's state affiliation isn't a bad thing. In fact its "state school" programs are actually some of the best in the nation (AEM, Bio Engineering, Vet, Stats), need I go on? Again, US News and World Report Rankings aren't the end all be all...just so everyone knows. </p>
<p>Now, I'm not trying to discredit Penn, but asserting that its better than any single institution is problematic, because you're comparing different things. I don't understand why people try to quantify school superiority, which is marginal if any. I think the OP needs to realize that he/she is going to a great school and it doesn't matter what other people say. In the end, you're getting a world class education.</p>
<p>
[quote]
only thing that makes Penn even slightly reputable is Wharton.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So having a top 5 med school, top 10 law school, top vet school, top dentistry school, top nursing school, and great programs in biology, music, nano science, antrhopology, sociology, economics, etc. etc. has nothing to do with Penn being a reputable university? Glad to see so many people boil down our university to a business school. None of the Ivies are bad. Some are better than others in certain areas. Others are better in different areas. Misconceptions and old stereotypes plague CC and infulence high school students who read these threads. There is no such thing as the worst Ivy. There is the most prestigious one (Harvard) but it's impossible to say which is the least prestigious.</p>
<p>^^^ I think u should read Cornell2011's last few sentences again...</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>And after that, you should read his first sentence.</p>
<p>I'm sorry. My wording was a little harder than I wanted it to be. I meant that the primary reason that Penn is known is because of Wharton (at the undergrad level). I guess I should have made that a little bit more clear. My post was simply an articulation of the truth. I in no way intended to imply that there weren't other programs that Penn that were good, just that Wharton is the overwhelming reason that Penn is known. I don't think anyone will disagree with me on this. </p>
<p>There are analogues to this at other universities. Cornell is primarily known for its Engineering. Brown is known for its PLME and lack of required courses. Harvard is known for a lot of the liberal arts. Yale is for more fine arts inclined people. Dartmouth, is known for its undergrad focus. U of C is an Economists school mainly. MIT is for engineers. I'm just saying that there are things that schools are known for, but those things don't bar other programs from being prestigious.</p>
<p>A side note: </p>
<p>I applied to Penn (Wharton), ultimately turning it down for Cornell, but nevertheless, I think its a great place to study. Also, I wasn't thinking graduate programs when I posted, it was mainly a comparison of undergrad programs. The reason that I mentioned the grad programs is this belief that Cornell is a "state school."</p>
<p>And to the people who don't know, the land grant colleges are still private and are not state schools. Cornell's land grant mission makes it unique. Their ideology of inclusion is something that the other ivies should take heed of because it seriously diversifies the student body and allows Cornellians to be successful in so many different areas.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sorry. My wording was a little harder than I wanted it to be. I meant that the primary reason that Penn is known is because of Wharton (at the undergrad level). I guess I should have made that a little bit more clear.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"Why it's known" and "whether it's good" are 2 entirely different questions. The average man on the street knows neither Wharton nor Cornell's hotel school. Doesn't make either of those programs not excellent in their given fields.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - I understand that, that's why I posted a clarification. My intent wasn't to say Penn wasn't good (look at my second paragraph of my original post), but rather that Penn's reputation comes from Wharton. </p>
<p>However, I would have to disagree with you on the question of the reputation of Cornell's hotel school. I've met many people who know Cornell and its elite Hotel program. I would also contend that Cornell Engineering is known very well among the world population. At the same time, I would also assert that people know Wharton....or maybe I hang around with more than average people, but I highly doubt that. </p>
<p>The last part of your post, was the entire point of my ORIGINAL post, albeit, it wasn't articulated as clearly.</p>
<p>OP: I think you made a great choice in terms of choosing to study at Penn. In my own experience, I think people usually regard Penn as more prestigious institution; there are exceptions obviously. I dont' know what Penn was like 20 years ago, but now it's definitely one of the most popular colleges that people apply to. I think most people would choose to come to Penn than Cornell if offered admissions from both institutions. If you do well at Penn, A LOT of doors will be open to you. I wouldn't worry too much about Penn's reputation. You won't be turned away from anything merely because your institution is not reputable enough. You will find a ton of Penn grads enter into the most elite graduate programs and financial firms. I would worry more about how to make the most out your college experience. Penn will offer you much more than you can ever take away.</p>
<p>I feel like high school students care more about schools' reputations than college students and employers do. Penn is top-notch, end of story.</p>
<p>Yeah, after about 6 hours on campus you'll realize that reputation doesn't matter that much and that no one really cares. It's just something high school kids get worked up about.</p>
<p>But don't kid yourself. Penn and Cornell are great schools but Cornell's no Penn.</p>
<p>I was kidding about state schools. There are some wonderful state schools, but there is a definite sense of disdain toward them among Ivy students. Notice I didn't say "worst" Ivy, but "lowest". The OP was asking about reputation, not actual quality, and do think most people would agree that Cornell has the "worst" reputation, whether or not its deserved.</p>
<p>lol i hate noob threads like these, I wouldve been the happiest guy on the earth if I had been accepted to either one and here some of you are arguing over which is better, when honestly it doesnt even matter! Both will give u top notch education and limitless employment/post grad oppurtunity so shut up and enjoy what u got, coz what some ppl consider as trash is another man's treasure.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Notice I didn't say "worst" Ivy, but "lowest". The OP was asking about reputation, not actual quality, and do think most people would agree that Cornell has the "worst" reputation, whether or not its deserved.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's still all stupid quibbling. Here are the top 10 resorts in the world ... oh, dear, #10 is "lowest" on that list. Boo hoo.</p>
<p>If you really want to play this game, on the cross admits from NYT it says 63-37 Penn, but again, they are both incredible school and you really can't go wrong with either one.</p>
<p>Also, when you say Penn is only good for Wharton, remember: it's one university ;).</p>
<p>Look, those NYT stats are absolutely horrible, because it was based on a survey of a few thousand high school students, arbitrarily asked about which schools they would choose. That doesn't really suggest much in terms of overall reputation...</p>
<p>Additionally, are you kidding me, Cornell is much more prestigious than Penn. Outside of Pennsylvania, nobody knows Penn. Most think its Penn State. I didn't want to get into this kind of argument, but reading this thread makes me upset. W/e I guess I am in the Penn forum, this is to be expected. </p>
<p>Dream on people, dream on.</p>