<p>EMM1 – I thought I made it clear that attitudes in the city and suburbs are different. I know lots of families in Lower Merion, and Temple is barely on their radar screens, at least when their children are choosing colleges in high school. Penn State is quite popular there, even though it’s no farther from Center City Philadelphia than my in-city neighborhood. But at my kids’ urban academic magnet, Penn State was not popular at all among good students.</p>
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<p>Very kind of you to say :)</p>
<p>I am not sure how I feel about state schools giving merit - or any FA to out of state students. I wish our good state schools in Ohio were not as expensive as they are. They seem to be on par with PA’s, with COAs of $22K or more. We do have at least one with major merit scholarships (and those are for in and out of state students). None seem to have much to offer in terms of need-based aid, beyond federal funds that any not-affluent college bound student would get. </p>
<p>I admit I read about special programs other states have like HOPE in GA and Bright Futures in FL and HEOP in NY and am a bit jealous. I know many states subsidize their publics a lot more than Ohio does, Michigan for example. And there are states that guarantee to meet full need for in-state residents (or even OOS), like UNC-CH and UVA, some CA state schools.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I’ve decided I disagree with state schools offering merit aid, though. What do you dislike about it - simply that it comes at the cost of need-based aid in many cases?</p>
<p>I assume schools like Alabama offer great OOS scholarships because if OOS grads stay in state after graduation, they’ve got good high stats people moving into the area. If the grads go back to their home states to work, they’re building a great nationwide network for their future alums, and spreading the word that Alabama just might not be as redneck it’s stereotypically perceived by the rest of the country. Seems like a pretty good ad campaign for Alabama!</p>
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<p>Be careful of the racial generalizations. I know lotsa kids in SoCal of many colors that want to live in comfort. :)</p>
<p>fwiw: I have no connection to Temple or Philly, but Temple’s numbers do need to increase for a private school, wannabe. Their 75th SAT % is our not much better than our public high school mean. Moreover, since Temple doesn’t come close to meeting full need, it has plenty of full payers. What T is probably trying to attract with fancier dorms is full payers with better numbers; some of which will be white, but another racial group has even better test scores. :)</p>
<p>^ and clearly what Temple is trying to do with the brand new scholarship (I believe this class coming in for 2014 will be the first in that program) is change that median SAT number.</p>
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<p>Usually, in the saying, the canine in question is of clearly determined and forcefully described gender.</p>
<p>Those of you who called me on the “white” comment are certainly right; it should have been “suburban, affluent.” My bad.</p>
<p>The comment about driving their numbers is also correct. But that is my point. I don’t think that public schools should be in the business of driving their numbers, improving their US News rank, etc.</p>
<p>* We’ll get that down by $2000 by selecting the traditional dorm with a shared bath rather than the 4-to-a-suite dorms, where 4 share 2 baths and a kitchenette. I don’t get the kitchenette as all dorm students are required to select the meal plan, of which there is exactly one option - full price, so I don’t really understand why they built these luxury dorms at all. The *</p>
<p>I don’t know what dorm/kitchenette school you’re talking about, but at my kids’ school the kitchenette is just a sink, a full sized fridge, a microwave, counter and pantry. So, not really for cooking full meals. </p>
<p>Even if the students have a full meal plan, it’s very doubtful that the students will be eating in Dining Halls seven days a week. Many kids don’t go to the Dining Halls on weekends, especially mornings. If the campus has off-campus dining options, then many kids will head there at night and on weekends. And, many kids like to have some food in their rooms for quick access. So, even with a full meal plan, kids will eat elsewhere at various times.</p>
<p>* I am particularly opposed to state universities giving merit money to out of state students.
*</p>
<p>What business is it of yours if a state univ gives merit out to anyone as long as it’s not using tax dollars to do so? And, what business is it of yours if a donor has specified how he/she wants the money targetted?</p>
<p>I don’t think that public schools should be in the business of driving their numbers, improving their US News rank, etc.</p>
<p>Then you clearly don’t understand the Big Picture.</p>
<p>And yes, I am generally opposed in principle to merit scholarships at public universities generally, even though one of my kids got one.</p>
<p>well, then, I hope you declined it…otherwise…</p>
<p>I think it is fair not to compare private schools in NYC dorm costs to a state flagship in an area where housing is much cheaper. I know Barnardgirl is paying more for housing at Barnard than the prices quoted in that article for UW. </p>
<p>However, the University of Michigan should be fairly comparable and at Michigan, you’re paying the price quoted in the article for a double converted to a triple with a community bathroom. To get a double with a community bathroom is about $1000 more than the price quoted and, ironically, is the same cost as we’re paying this year for Barnardgirl to be in a single within a suite with a full kitchen (but no common living area, which I find odd). </p>
<p>All of those fees are more than I pay in my monthly mortgage (including taxes and insurance), which is kind of crazy, is it not?</p>
<p>out is SoCal…: ‘Life’s a beach, and then you die.’</p>
<p>Hang Ten!</p>
<ol>
<li> “What business is it of yours if a state univ gives merit out to anyone as long as it’s not using tax dollars to do so? And, what business is it of yours if a donor has specified how he/she wants the money targetted?”</li>
</ol>
<p>I should clarify. If a donor gives money for a specific purpose, then of course the money should be used for that purpose. But otherwise, money is fungible; if unrestricted private money is used for a merit scholarship, then state funds must be used to pay for things for which the private money would otherwise be available.</p>
<ol>
<li> "I don’t think that public schools should be in the business of driving their numbers, improving their US News rank, etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>Then you clearly don’t understand the Big Picture."</p>
<p>And what big picture might that be? The president telling other presidents what a good job he is doing?</p>
<ol>
<li> And yes, I am generally opposed in principle to merit scholarships at public universities generally, even though one of my kids got one. well, then, I hope you declined it…otherwise.</li>
</ol>
<p>Otherwise, what? Not my fault that they are pursuing a bad business model.</p>
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<li> Otherwise what? It is not my fault that they are pursuing a bad business model.</li>
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<p>Except money begats money. For colleges in search of funding – whether it be research and/or donations – rankings matter.</p>
<p>For example, just as Harvard beats Pacific in funding, Cal Berkeley & Michigan will consistently beat Penn State in “Other” funding, due in (large) part to rankings.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Exactly…It’s a domino effect. Better students help you get better profs which helps you get better grants which all help the school “look better” so companies come to recruit, donors give more money, and so forth. The whole state is better off when it has a very successful public school system.</p>
<p>*1. “What business is it of yours if a state univ gives merit out to anyone as long as it’s not using tax dollars to do so? And, what business is it of yours if a donor has specified how he/she wants the money targetted?”</p>
<p>then state funds must be used to pay for things for which the private money would otherwise be available.*</p>
<p>And, what would that be that would satisfy you?</p>
<ol>
<li>"I don’t think that public schools should be in the business of driving their numbers, improving their US News rank, etc.</li>
</ol>
<p>Then you clearly don’t understand the Big Picture."</p>
<p>And what big picture might that be? The president telling other presidents what a good job he is doing?</p>
<p>No…is that really the best thought you could possibly come up with? Read above for some critical thinking.</p>
<ol>
<li>And yes, I am generally opposed in principle to merit scholarships at public universities generally, even though one of my kids got one. well, then, I hope you declined it…otherwise.</li>
</ol>
<p>Otherwise, what? Not my fault that they are pursuing a bad business model.*</p>
<p>If you didn’t decline the money, which according to your conscience isn’t “right”, then that doesn’t say much. You don’t put your money where your mouth is. No student MUST accept a merit scholarship.</p>
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<p>I think you are being unfair. If EMM1’s kid declines the scholarship, it’s probable the $ will go to someone else getting a merit scholarship–not to need based aid. So turning it down is not going to help change the system.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Ok…then accept the money and during those four years tell the school that you’re going to endow an EMMI1 Award to a needy student.</p>
<p>There’s more than one way to keep one’s ethics.</p>
<p>Profs who get the big research bucks are going to be attracted to a school based on the quality and reputation of the graduate program in their field, not what US News says.</p>
<p>I am not a taxpayer in the state in which S attended college, nor do I have a say in their policies. If they had asked me, I would have told them that offering merit money to out of state students, I would have told them it was a bad. But if they think that it is in their interest to try to attract better students from out of state, that is their choice, not mine. I have no qualms about accepting the money under those circumstances. Thus, for example, while I believe that in general affirmative action for affluent white women is wrong in principle, I never criticize an affluent white woman for taking advantage of such a program.</p>
<p>But then again, I guess my horse is not quite as high as mom2’s.</p>
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<p>Oh, absolutely agree. My daughter who has a choice is taking the lowest meal plan, 12 per week, because she doesn’t eat 21 meals a week now so I don’t expect her to at college either. If she needs more meals, she can just pay for them one at a time. D2’s school, with the fancy dorms and kitchenettes, requires everyone to pay for a full meal plan, and the dining hall is across campus, not near the dorms. I get the desire to eat in the dorms, but you’ve already paid for the meals in the dining room. If you are going to require them to pay for 21 meals a week, why provide the kitchenette? The more traditional dorms at the school allow a minifridge and microwave, and I’m sure that’s enough. We’re paying for a basically unused kitchenette OR paying for uneaten meals at the dining hall.</p>