@4junior, last year Vassar and Hamilton were BOTH ranked #12, this year Vassar is ranked #12 and Hamilton is #18 - there weren’t any #13-17 ranked schools.Both schools have moved around within the USNWR #10-20 ranking for years as the aggregate grading scale is literally a single point difference between a #12 and a #18 ranked school.
Furthermore, Vassar and Hamilton’s CDS profiles are almost exactly the same, the prestige is the same - the difference is vibe and fit, nothing more. But as one lives vibe and fit, that should be the most important factor assuming all other things are the same - IMHO. as an example, our DD were both accepted to #8 Carleton, but neither felt like it was the best fit.
@wisteria100, Colby’s latest accepted student test scores are still very slightly lower than other similarly ranked schools such as Colgate or Hamilton, and no Bates doesn’t add in those who didn’t submit scores for admission purposes (neither does any other test optional school) - but as you said, schools are much more than their student test score profiles.
@wisteria100 That was the latest info I could find on Colby from a google search, it would indeed make sense that they have later data somewhere. And really, I meant that post as very broad stroke and with the main idea that admit rate and scores do not correlate - and that people draw prestige conclusions based on less than perfect metrics.
Re Bates those CDS scores are all students including ones that don’t submit. I think its great that Bates supports those who do not do well on standardized testing. I would not correlate ‘not have a lot of opportunities’ with lower standardized testing at Bates. Our tour guide was very open that she did not submit scores and she is in no way underprivileged; going to a very good NY private I am sure she had all the opportunities for prep and a strong curriculum to form a knowledge base - she is probably just not a good test taker.
4junior’s right. Bates made a conscious decisions to include all scores, even for those who did not submit. In part it was because US News assesses a heavy penalty in their rankings for not doing so.
@Chembiodad I am under the impression that the CDS must by nature include all scores even if not ‘submitted’ during the application process. This includes test flexable schools like Hamilton.
@4junior, I don’t believe that the CDS requires any schools to include all results - Of the test optional schools, Bates says 91% submitted scores, Bowdoin says 98%, Wesleyan says 99%…
I have no idea how a test flexible school, such as Hamilton, would show the results in the CDS given a student can submit a mix of 3 scores - 1 ACT CR section, 1 SAT Math section and 1 SAT 2 test - maybe they pick out the ACT and SAT scores idk…If USNWR abides by the 15% reduction rule, then they may ding Hamilton in the ranking as its 2016-2017 CDS only reflects 83% of students…
@4junior my comment about Bates giving kids a chance goes beyond the test optional policy. I do think they try and seek out or give the benefit of the doubt to underserved kids. I got that impression from some anecdotes an adcom talked about in their info session. ie; taking a kid from a school where less than 10% of kids go to 4 yr colleges. Taking kids who had 1 sentence counselor recs, because the school only has 1 counselor for a thousand kids etc.
Regarding Vassar vs Hamilton - both great schools, different vibes, But I gotta give the prestige tip to Vassar, not because of rankings, but more because of name recognition
I can vouch for the Bates information. I won’t tell you how I know it to be true but I can tell you it’s accurate. Bates originally made the decision to change how they reported their info a few years ago when they found that the US News formula punished them more for not reporting scores than reporting the low scores of non-submitters.
Of course it’s likely that Bates doesn’t have scores for 100% of incoming students. Some applicants don’t take standardized tests at all. But if they applied to non test-optional schools their scores would be on the Common App and all Bates would have to do is unmask them after the student was admitted.
While this thread has gotten way off topic, Name Recognition is in the eye of the beholder - if I was from the Midwest I would give the nod to Carleton, otherwise not so certain.
It’s not unusual for even tippy tops to give consideration to high schools wihere, eg, less than 10% go off to college, when the student has a strong record, strong app, and high potential.
I’d also point out Vassar has a lure for some kids, who want to be near NYC.
It should also be noted that US News collects their info by surveying each school using the questions on the CDS. It does not take it directly from the CDS. While it would be expected that the information matches pretty closely there might in fact be differences in the CDS information and the US News information based on the information available at the time at which it was gathered.
Dartmouth reports 100%, as does Penn. Yale reports 116%. The latest CDS I could find for Harvard had 120%. It appears inconsistency is an issue with the CDS.
Chem, you’re conflating two different issues: 1) the rate at which applicants who have taken the aptitude tests submit them for consideration in the admissions process and 2) the (usually higher) rate at which the school itself reports them on its CDS. As someone else pointed out upstream, Bates’ 91% submit rate on the CDS may, in fact, represent 100% of everyone for which they had any information.
@circuitrider, yes they are both attending Hamilton after both being accepted to Carleton as well - just didn’t feel the vibe.
Regarding the Bates CDS %, as @Sue22 pointed out, Bates said they reported the test scores for all students that matriculated = 100% - can’t have it both ways.
As the CDS scores are self-reported, I think the scores are anywhere from the exact school’s results, to a general picture of the school’s results that is derived differently dependent upon the school.
