<p>Are there any statistics or data available regarding the list of undergrad schools which sends a large portion of their graduates to the top law schools?</p>
<p>I've looked into this and the past and found these things:</p>
<p>1) The WSJ Feeder School Ranking...interesting to look at but probably not very reliable, and it deals with Law, Business, and Med schools.</p>
<p>2) Top law schools, such as YLS and HLS, provide the stats of their incoming class, including the undergraduate institution representation. UVA does this as well...there is a thread somewhere in the law school forum (maybe it's still here) with links to those data sets.</p>
<p>3) Speak with the actual pre-law offices of schools you're interested in to get data about where their students end up applying to / being accepted to.</p>
<p>Hey, thanks!!! I've found the thread with the links to all the law schools' data on their undergrad student's profile. Just by looking at the several of those which we say that are top national law schools, they accept the largest number of students from their own undergrade programs. Of course, not all of them do, but the majority of t14 schools seems to find their undergrads the most attractive. Also, the geographical factor seems to play a big part in the most of the T20s...</p>
<p>I always think this type of question is like --
"which came first, the chicken or the egg??"</p>
<p>Do T-14 Law Schools seem to take an inordinate amount of kids from the same top 25 (or thereabouts) undergrad schools?? Or do those kids who attend the top 25 UG schools tend to score in the top 5% on the LSAT's and therefore are sought after by the T-14 Law schools? </p>
<p>My gut feeling is that a strong candidate from SUNY Bing. or Penn State with a high GPA and an LSAT of 170 + will get into a top law school. But there may be more kids from the IVY's and AWS who will score 170 + on the LSAT's. Therefore that leads to the appearance of more kids in T-14 law schools coming from those same top 25 UG schools.</p>
<p>I don't think T-14 law schools go out of there way to deny admission from kids from 98% of the colleges in this country, but the kids from the top schools will have a higher number of kids scoring well on the LSAT's. And Law school admission is based mostly on LSAT's and GPA. --Just my opinion!!</p>
<p>seconded. i agree completely.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hey, thanks!!! I've found the thread with the links to all the law schools' data on their undergrad student's profile. Just by looking at the several of those which we say that are top national law schools, they accept the largest number of students from their own undergrade programs. Of course, not all of them do, but the majority of t14 schools seems to find their undergrads the most attractive.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I think the causation is the reverse - that the undergrads of a particular school tend to find their respective law school to be the most attractive. The rationale is quite simple. People tend to be creatures of habit. Nobody likes to move. So if people are given the choice of staying where they are, they tend to do so. Once you get used to a certain area, you tend to want to stay. Couple that with the fact that you may have a boy/girl-friend who may not be able to move (i.e. because he/she hasn't graduated yet or she has a good job in the area), and long-distance relationships are a pain. </p>
<p>Hence, rather than the law schools preferring their own undergrads, I think it's more that the undergrads prefer their own law schools.</p>
<p>For example, 75% of all those admitted to Yale Law school choose it. However, 50% of Harvard College students admitted to Yale Law and Harvard Law choose Harvard Law. </p>
<p>One reason is finances. It's often easier to get work of some sort if you stay at the same school. Sometimes, it's just that you know more about the opportunities. Harvard has pre-law advisers--I think the poster Hanna was one--who live in the dorms and help law school applicants with the process. This cuts down the cost of attending Harvard Law, since you don't have to pay for housing. </p>
<p>UPenn allows Wharton kids to "submatriculate" and count the first year of law school as the last year of undergrad, thus saving a year of tuition, room and board. That's a pretty powerful incentive to stay at Penn. (I don't know if you can do this from arts and sciences. The people I personally know who have done this are Whartonites.) </p>
<p>When students, particularly those who have master's degrees, stay at the same school, it's often possible to get undergrad TAing positions, proctor exams, grade exams, etc. because the profs who teach undergrad courses know you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UPenn allows Wharton kids to "submatriculate" and count the first year of law school as the last year of undergrad, thus saving a year of tuition, room and board. That's a pretty powerful incentive to stay at Penn. (I don't know if you can do this from arts and sciences. The people I personally know who have done this are Whartonites.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, you can do it from the Arts & Sciences.</p>
<p>Apparently, you can even do it from the College of Nursing, as can be seen on p. 65 here.</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>hazmat asked me to post here to clarify...</p>
<p>All four undergraduate schools at Penn have a submat agreement with Penn Law so anyone can do it regardless of what school you are enrolled in. Of course, each school has rules regarding who is eligible based on coursework, etc. so you should always check that.</p>
<p>Hi WhartonAdvisor- as long as you are here, I'm curious about something--</p>
<p>Do Law Schools give their own undergrads a bit more "wiggle room" in Law School Admission?? The thoughts on this topic as mentioned above, seem to indicate that the UG's find their own Law Schools the most desirable, so that is why they stay for the entire 7 years. That may be the case-but I'm also wondering if acceptance to the Law School is a bit more forthcoming to their own undergrads.</p>
<p>An example might be- (and I'm basing info on 25%-75% from Boston College Law Locator Match- might be old version- but you get the point))</p>
<p>Harvards 25%-75% LSAT is 169-175
Yale is 168-175
Columbia 167-173.</p>
<p>Now if my kid gets a 169 LSAT (within range for Harvard) but is not a Harvard UG, I would not expect an acceptance from Harvard (and probably not Yale or Columbia either)
But if the Harvard kid gets the 169-170, is there is a better "likelihood" (assuming grades are good- fine application-loves mom and apple pie) that the Harvard UG gets into the Law School as the grades/Lsat's are within 50% range??
Most kids with good grades and an LSAT of 169 will probably get into a T-14, (and I hate to make VAST generalizations- but I am a mom on college confidential so what the heck!!) but most probably will get into one of the "mid-schools" # 7-12 and certainly not Harvard. </p>
<p>So my "theory" is that the Harvard or Yale kid with the 169 LSAT will get into their OWN school and then a few others like U Mich, UVA, or Duke and based on those choices, they may pick their own higher ranked Harvard.</p>
<p>My gut tells me that may be the main reason why so many kids continue at their own school-- and not because these kids find their school superior to all others.
You'd think a 20/21 year old would want a new experience. Seven years at one school just sounds like a real long time to me- </p>
<p>My d will be going through the admission process next year- so I was curious as to what your insights might add to this discussion--
Thanks
Marny</p>
<p>
[quote]
You'd think a 20/21 year old would want a new experience. Seven years at one school just sounds like a real long time to me-
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You'd think so, right? But I have known quite a few academics who have spent their * entire adult lives * at one school. And I mean their ENTIRE adult lives. Got their bachelor's, then master's, then PhD, then became an assistant professor there, then got tenure there, and so forth. There are a good number of Harvard professors who've been there basically since they were 18 and have never left. Happens at MIT also.</p>
<p>I'm not gonna generalize- but people learn and grow from many different life experiences. Wouldn't hurt them to expand their own horizons.<br>
Might make em a bit smarter and more interesting too!</p>
<p>(not meaning to insult anyone- but don't most people desire a change every so often?? )</p>
<p>I definitely think there are people who are "unadventurous" and afraid of change- but personally, I don't think the same academic or life routine is necessarily a good thing.<br>
Now I have the same husband & job for 30 + years, so I am not one wild and crazy gal- but the thought of a 20 year old kid not craving a somewhat new experience makes me a little sad.</p>
<p>In my opinion, an applicant most likely does not receive a significant (if any) boost in law school admissions simply because that applicant went to the same school as an undergrad, especially when you are talking about top law schools. </p>
<p>I think that you do find that many students from a particular undergrad continue on to study law at the same school for several reasons, including simple comfort level with the city, the school, friendships, environment, etc. It also makes sense that students who had solid high school GPAs, good SAT scores and other qualifications sufficient to get into a well respected undergrad program (and most top law schools are located at universities that have well respected undergrad programs) would also have the qualifications to get into a top law school. In fact, since there are only so many top law schools out there (only 14 of them, if you take to heart most of what is suggested on this board), it makes sense that you would find a disproportionate number of "same school students" continuing on to law school where they went to undergrad. </p>
<p>Anecdotally, my class at Penn Law was comprised of just under 10% Penn grads, 10% Cornell grads, 10% Harvard grads and 5% Michigan grads. The significant percentage of the rest of the student body came from the schools you would expect (e.g. Yale, Georgetown, Columbia) with the rest coming from a variety of other schools (though, I believe, only one student from each of the "less expected" schools). I suppose you could ask, then, why did so many Cornell, Harvard and Michigan grads choose to go to school at Penn? Did the admissions folks somehow favor them in the application process? I also know many Penn Wharton and College grads who went to law school at many other places, including both T14 law schools and other law schools such as Brooklyn, Catholic, Fordham, Minnesota, BU, BC, Hastings, Iowa, UNLV, Capital and George Mason. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, most students who graduate from a particular undergraduate school will not get into the associated T14 law school, and may not get into a Tier I or Tier II law school at all. Nothing is guaranteed in law school admissions.</p>
<p>Hi there, I graduated high school with the 2010 class, took part in the Bridge program during my Senior year, stayed at the community College an extra semester, and am currently a second semester sophomore at Binghamton University. I am working on creating my own major through Binghamton’s Harpur College. I believe the ILR curriculum at Cornell is wonderful but could be better if it had an Anthropological component; which is why I am doing what I am doing and trying to create such a major. </p>
<p>Why the post? I want to study law and I want to study law at the University of Pennsylvania. I will be taking the practice LSAT this weekend and begin studying shortly after that. I applied to Cornell’s ILR school last semester (Fall 2010) for this semester (Spring 2011) and was declined. I was told that my application looked good but that my grades in a few courses put members on the board on reserve. I was told that if I do well this semester and take certain classes that I would have a good chance of being accepted for the Fall 2011 term. I am currently taking 16 credits this semester, all of which are 200 and 300 level courses, and don’t know if I should reapply to ILR. </p>
<p>Binghamton is great but my goal is UPenn. If studying at Cornell for my undergraduate degree would give me any leverage I will put my energy and time into doing everything possible to make that happen. </p>
<p>My understanding is that internships, a solid GPA, and LSAT score of 170 would be my ticket in. Am I wrong? Is where one comes from (undergraduate school) a key factor as well?? Thank you for taking the time to read this.</p>
<p>Could you show me the link? thanks!</p>