Perceptions of different schools

Colleges & Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>morrismm, you seem to be the funniest one in the thread. If you were unaware, this isn’t a problem specific to Cornell. All schools have certain majors that look down on others for a wide variety of reasons. Also, you’re delusional if you think that the quality of the student bodies in A&S/Engi and the state schools are the same and that it is equally difficult to get in. Cornell publishes numerous reports with statistics that prove the gap. Sure, the stats for entering freshman may not be THAT different, but you have to consider that the state schools have huge transfer populations. With acceptance rates in the 40s combined with the fact that SAT/ACT scores aren’t even required, it’s apparent that the quality of the incoming transfers at the state schools are not anywhere near those of the freshman class. That is why every year, you see hundreds of transfers from community colleges get into ILR and Ag. Your sample size of <10 (your child and his/her friends) doesn’t mean anything. None of us are saying that the state schools don’t have brilliant people; we’re just stating that the average student in those schools is academically weaker. </p>

<p>The huge disparity in transfer admissions criteria is even being exploited. Read some of the transfer posts and it’ll be obvious. There are people from community colleges who got rejected from A&S transfer applying to ILR the next year in order to have a much better shot. There’s people specifically applying to the state schools based on acceptance rates - I guarantee you that the majority of ILR transfer applicants have no interest whatsoever in labor relations. I kid you not, literally half of ILR’s student body is comprised of transfer students (most of them with horrible high school stats), and over a third of them are from one state - NY. If you honestly think your child’s success somehow disproves all the facts and statistics out there, I don’t know what to tell you.</p>

<p>@OP, yes there are different perceptions out there. However, a lot of people don’t care, and the ones who do don’t really make it obvious enough that you would feel out of place. </p>

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<p>I find it amusing how you’re surprised that students at an Ivy League school care about prestige/selectivity/superiority/etc. That’s like being shocked that people at a political debate are interested in politics. MINDBLOWING isn’t it?</p>

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<p>Wow waved, which one (s) were you rejected from? Sorry you only got into Cornell. And along with all those community college transfers. </p>

<p>Cornell must be so easy. At the school I attended, and the one I work for, students are dismissed if they do poorly. So I guess all these CC transfer students do fine because the classes they take are so easy at Cornell. Obviously they only taking classes at the “state” schools". And don’t they make the " state" school students live seperately? They aren’t allowed to mingle with the “ivy” league students, right?</p>

<p>And yes, there are perceptions about the difficulty of majors at all schools, especially if there is en engineering school. ( English majors are always laughed at. My physics major S hated english coursses and found them difficult.). But it seems only Cornell has the extreme self judgement and hate about majors. It is apparent in how many threads there are like this on the Cornell thread. Do you see MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Princeton, etc threads like this?</p>

<p>Pathetic.</p>

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<p>The only time wavedasher ever post on CC is about this topic. From 1/8/2011:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1061470-cornell-concern-any-advice.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/1061470-cornell-concern-any-advice.html&lt;/a&gt;

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<p>It is high schoolers who are obsessed over ranking and which school is harder to get into, as if they want to validate their whole high school career through which college they got into. More often than not, after a year into college, they stop caring about their SAT scores or worry about which school is better because they have matured. But it doesn’t seem like it is the case for everyone.</p>

<p>I don’t think I have ever heard my kids or their friends refer to contract schools as state schools.</p>

<p>A good friend’s son was offered GT to one of those contract schools. He went to Dalton with 3.7 GPA taking most rigorous courses, 2200+ SAT. He couldn’t transfer because he didn’t meet Cornell’s GT requirements after a year. There are also many GTers who decide to go to their cheapest options (state schools, CC) for one year before they matriculate at Cornell. </p>

<p>I don’t want to turn this discussion into another transfer students discussion or contract schools vs endowed schools, there are many threads about those topics already. Just do a search, and you will find same posters on the topic.</p>

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<p>Aside point…they are “Contract” Colleges, not “State” Colleges. Just look at cost. While the Contract colleges sticker price is approximately $17,000 less than the Endowed colleges, they are still approximately $20,000 more than SUNY schools. In our income bracket, we get no aid for Contract college & would get enough at one of the endowed colleges to get the price to about what we pay now…so the financial advantage isn’t as great as some imply.</p>

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<p>I am an alum and have a son attending Cornell and I do not think it is an issue at all.</p>

<p>That said I do agree with this statement

There are a small minority of people who judge people by what school they are in just as there are a small minority of people who judge others by what frat they are in, where they live, what cloths they wear, etc. All populations have status judgemental people among them.</p>

<p>However, other than academic majors all (virtually all?) aspects of university life (housing, eating, ECs, etc) are run at the University level and mix all students from all colleges. While students from each college (not just the contract colleges) will undoubtly get some ribbing for what college they attend I firmly believe the various colleges and the mixing of students is one of Cornell’s greatest strengths. There are few schools in the world where my hall mates would be engineers (like me), humanities arts and science types, science arts and sciences types, architects, ag school types, ILR business types, hotelies, and design majors from the Hum Ec school all within the same set of 20 rooms … how that is anything other than a huge plus I do not know.</p>

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<p>I think people need to realize that not every student is seeking the same thing at Cornell. Some go to Cornell and pick known “easy” majors with the hopes high grades that will lead to big money or a top grad or med school and it can and does work out for highly motivated students at the top. Some pick majors based purely on interests or academic opportunities and may not even have a real plan but something falls into place. Some have a specific major like Engineering and have a more less straight path to the goal. Cornell is the door - each student has to walk through it. </p>

<p>Life is a journey not a race. My D is somewhere in the middle. All of this talk about making a lot of money right out of college is not the primary motivator for her and it is a little disheartening to hear parents bragging about money or GPA as the definition of success in life. This does not mean my D is not doing well - she is. I just don’t brag about it all of the time - I don’t need to. People can tell she is smart based on the way she carries herself. </p>

<p>We leave the bragging up to her cousin’s parents who give the play by play of each class at Cornell and how far she is from the mean and the standard deviation on each test. God forbid she has a bad test day, changes her mind about her major or does not become the coveted med student at Harvard. She is a first semester freshman - I can’t even imagine the pressure she must feel. Her cousin is quite smug and gives my D pitying looks like she must be flunking out because she does not talk about her grades all of the time. Actually my D pities her right back… </p>

<p>I am just proud of my D for the appreciation she shows for being given the opportunity to be at Cornell and all of the hard work and effort she has put into her classes which IS reflective in her grades. Yet, ultimately, I know she will be a success in life because of who she is. </p>

<p>And of course my D wants to be successful - that is why she is at Cornell. Every student at Cornell in every major has an equal chance of success depending on what they want from the experience, what they bring to it and what they take away from it. Just remember parents, they may want different things from life than you do.</p>

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<p>I have to defend morrismm a bit. She disclosed her D’s success after many posters bashed ILR, and used money making as the bench mark for success.</p>

<p>cormom - with all due respect, you just bragged about your D by putting her cousin down.</p>

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<p>I think it’s also easy to forget that not everyone at Cornell went to quality high schools. And since Cornell takes a larger number of people compared to its counterparts, there are more of these students. It’s unfortunate that some people have to play a game of “catch-up” in certain courses, but that’s not a Cornell problem–its an education problem. That’s another debate, though.</p>

<p>I am sick and tired of Cornellians putting other Cornellians down.</p>

<p>Welcome to my world. I’ve experienced it firsthand, but I don’t get bothered much anymore. In less than two years, I won’t see a lot of faces ever again.</p>

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<p>Curious as to what type of job pays $170,000 a year to a 24-25 year old with a bachelor’s degree & two years of work experience ? Was she elected to the US House of Representatives ? Thanks in advance !</p>

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<p>My point is simply this - those that will “make it” at Cornell and in the real world will do so because they have it in them to succeed regardless of what school at Cornell they attended or what their major was and definitions of success vary. My D is more than a GPA or a major or a school there. I used her cousin as an example of two different perspectives. She has another cousin that went to Cornell who never once mentioned her grades, EVER. She graduated with honors and is doing very well. Cornell is Cornell.</p>

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<p>Based on a well known survey of 2011 IB analyst compensation:
Base salary:
first year: 70K
second year: 80K
third year: 90K</p>

<p>Bonus:
frist year: 55- 70K
second year: 55-100K
third year: 80-120K</p>

<p>2011 total comp was down by 23%, and this year will be down again.</p>

<p>From few recruits we have lost to Google, their starting salary was 140K.</p>

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<p>^
Wait… Are you serious? First year all-in compensation is 125-140 k? </p>

<p>I thought it was 100 k flat, if you’re lucky.</p>

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<p>Only 1 if you must know. I actually didn’t know about this problem in high school and really liked Cornell; I still don’t regret my choice as it is a great school despite this small setback. Very mature of you to make that jab though. Aren’t you like 50+ years old? I would peg you at around 15 by the responses and reasonings you’ve given thus far. </p>

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<p>Cornell doesn’t publish the info, and why would they, but I would bet anything the 3.8+ community college GPAs that the transfers had significantly drop for most students. Of course, they’re also competing against the weaker students at Cornell. ILR is half transfers, so they’re fighting with the same type of students they were fighting at their previous schools. </p>

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<p>These threads pop up in other schools too. I haven’t frequented other forums recently, but last time I checked, there were huge arguments between Wharton/Penn (nursing esp.), Columbia and Columbia GS, Berkeley and its similar problem with transfers, etc. Also, the threads are more frequent in Cornell’s forum because other universities don’t have several different colleges all with separate admissions criteria. </p>

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<p>The only time I post on this topic is when someone spreads misinformation. I usually don’t come into these topics anymore since I’ve written about them to death, but newer users need to see views from the opposite side before they make their own judgments. You parents and “old-timers” are biased and conveniently ignore all the facts that I present. I already told you that this isn’t a huge problem, but it isn’t a small one either. I’ve met several alums who cared, and of course know many students who do as well (I can already guess that you will just dismiss that the people who care don’t matter or are pathetic). Just because your daughter didn’t experience this doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. She might’ve just hung out with a crowd that didn’t mind. And even if they did, it’s not like they would make it so blatant. It’s a sensitive topic, as you can see how fired up morrism is getting, refusing to believe the statistics that Cornell itself publishes year after year.</p>

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<p>If you go to Ives Hall (the ILR building), it says in huge letters engraved on the building “The State University of New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations”. Also, <a href=“https://www.suny.edu/student/campuses_complete_list.cfm[/url]”>https://www.suny.edu/student/campuses_complete_list.cfm&lt;/a&gt;
I don’t see why it’s a problem calling them state as opposed to contract colleges. They receive grants from the state, they favor and give reduced tuition to NYS residents, and they do research for the state with the money they receive.</p>

<p>I’ll stop posting now as I assume you people want this thread buried.</p>

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<p>I’ve been reading this thread for awhile, and I thought I would opine on the issue as well.</p>

<p>Why can’t we all just say we go to Cornell and be proud of this accomplishment? </p>

<p>I am a recently accepted transfer student from a well known UC School, and I will be joining the ILR community this Spring. No, I did not apply to ILR because of the transfer rate, but I grudgingly admit that this is oft a reason for applicants to apply to ILR. I applied for three reasons:</p>

<p>1) I was unhappy with my current institution, its complacency and its lack of a major that fit my skills and interests.
2) I found the ILR program’s academic core, and subsequent elective courses, to be a perfect match for my skills and interests.
3) I wanted to attend an institution with significantly better career opportunities than are present at my current university.</p>

<p>I only later discovered the “comparative ease” that students experience in winning admission to some of the state or contract schools. Regardless, I worked hard at my current institution to win my admission. Without turning this into a post to flaunt my statistics, I will say that my grades were not up to par to win admittance during high school–though I was in the “Top 5%”. However, my test scores were above the 75’th percentile for ALL of the colleges, so I do think that I am qualified to do well at any course taught at Cornell.</p>

<p>Wavedasher, you mentioned that Berkeley has a similar problem with transfer students coming from California Community Colleges. As a member of a UC, I have witnessed this stigma first hand, and it is appalling. There are plenty of students who are ridiculed for their “transfer admittance,” and I would be lying if I said that I haven’t engaged in this ridicule in the past. But, there are some transfer students here who are far more intelligent than freshman admits. I’ve come to a point in my life where I see that each person I meet has something to contribute to my development, and I can only benefit by hearing their perspective, experiences, etc.</p>

<p>I see why some at Cornell would feel that their hard work in high school is diminished by transfer students. But, I think we’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. Instead of saying that transfer students, and community college students in particular, aren’t as intelligent as a freshman admit (and this empirically may be the case). We should, instead, recognize the effort they have dedicated to achieving their goal of attending Cornell. For some, school comes easier. But, that doesn’t mean that ILR, HumEC, or SHA students didn’t work just as hard to achieve their goal.</p>

<p>I’m proud, and excited, of my admittance to ILR. I love the program, and I especially love Cornell. I think it is high time to do our founder justice in upholding his mission statement.</p>

<p>I’ll end my spiel with that quasi-platitude.</p>

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<p>There is no need to bury this thread. I hope more students come to Cornell with open eyes without the colored glass of “Ivy League,” then maybe we’ll have less discussions like this. My younger daughter considered Yale, Brown, Williams before she ED at Cornell. She would have been a strong contender for all of those schools, Cornell was the one that ticked off most of the boxes for her. One semester into it, she has no regrets. She is looking forward to next semester and the sorority rush in Jan.</p>

<p>tungtied - welcome to Cornell.</p>

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<p>Thanks, oldfort, for the link to an older thread on this issue. Guess I should have searched, but things can change in 2 years. Though it looks like they didn’t. Sounds like the diversity of skill level (or perceived skill level) is a problem for some. I think my S will be fine. I’d rather he was around a range of people. You can learn from snobs, too.</p>

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<p>D1 had a great educational and personal growth experience at Cornell. She took a wide variety of courses. She choose her major because she planned to go to law school and many ILR graduates attend law school. Her decision had absolutely nothing to do with ease of acceptance or cost. While attending, she never avoided any difficult class if it interested her.</p>

<p>Cornell is a great school with a wide diversity of different, interesting and talented people. Some transferred in, some didn’t have perfect SATs. Why does that make them inferior people? My D’s bf attended Clarkson (4.0) for undergrad. OMG, an inferior school. He just got his PHD in engineering from Cornell. He just got a great job making six figures. ( I know, money doesn’t matter. Hahaha. Until it is time to buy a house, buy a car or pay a bill.)</p>

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<p>Nd I agree with oldfort.</p>

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<p>Morrismm,
you really do come across as a smug and insecure person. Your continual boasting about your D’s salary and now her boyfriend’s “six figures” makes you look like an idiot.</p>

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<p>Dude. Enough bragging about your daughter’s salary. And, now your daughter’s boyfriend or whatever.</p>

<p>Nobody cares.</p>

<p>Guess what. I know several people who didn’t even go to colleges making high six figures, because they started successful family businesses. </p>

<p>In the real working world, nothing is ruder than asking others what their salaries are, or worse yet, suggesting to compare people’s salaries.</p>