for those that are fans of a mandated course: you need to remember that it has to be easy enough for the lowest student in the school to pass it. It is not college prep. It is not even junior college prep level.
on another favored topic our district requires a "health’ class. After 10 years or so, one of the Board members who was a major proponet of the mandated class, asked in an open board meeting how the course was going. EVERY high school student rep at that official meeting said it was a “joke”. The (clueless) Board was shocked, shocked.
The class wouldn’t need to teach the intricacies of credit default swaps. So it wouldn’t need to be a college level class. Or junior college prep level. Would cover the basics of economics.
The reason why its even a question (I am in favor of mandatory basic economics education K-12 BTW) is that basic economics understanding the US would have to get a lot better to simply suck. We could fall back on the “learn that at home” concept but that is clearly failing (at least in many, many cases). In large part because parents often suck at basic economics as well (as did their parents…).
If your kid can pass out of the class with a test, fine. Though the notion of not wanting your kid to waste time with an basic economics class seems misguided to me. Much of learning, particularly when you are young, is through repetition. My kids “wasted” a lot of time reviewing material in math, science, English, history, etc. classes reviewing materials they already knew. That review, to me, is part of the learning process.
And I don’t think basic economics needs to be a full year, full semester or even full class 5 days a week. It could be added to the curriculum of another class (math or social studies for instance). Though one issue with that is teachers (like the rest of us) often suck at economics too.
Many bright and all gifted students do not need the repetition most do. Forcing someone (at any age) to sit through repeats of known concepts/information is horrible. The time spent being bored instead of actively engaging one’s mind is cruel. It also leads to misbehaving. The learning process is not “one size fits all”. It is a shame so much time is wasted for the top students by making them do what everyone else needs to do.
Both health and finances are good subjects to know. Parents should not be the ones providing what they know, especially since they may not have the info or be misinformed. It saves both the school and student (time and or money) allowing testing out of material. The only disadvantage I see is that students who may otherwise learn 100% of the material may only do enough to pass.
Personally, I think my child will gain more out of a basic economics class (a semester is required at D’s school) vs. AP Calculus BC (which she will take as a senior). I know many, many bright adults who are fiscal idiots. Ninth grade may be a bit young, but definitely before they graduate. I can say that mine just started her semester of economics and is already making better financial decisions in regard to the fact that she has dramatically downsized her trips to Starbucks and Sonic.
Regarding health: I think one of the reasons why health class is a joke is because that is a class that should be taught in middle school. By high school, the kids are already familiar with healthy eating, the importance of exercise, why drugs are evil, and where babies come from. They just may choose to ignore the information they already know. Because they are - after all - invincible (at least they think so).
My younger son’s precalc teacher did this unofficially. He whizzed through the pre-calc curriculum at almost twice the speed of other teachers and in addition to getting started on the Calc AB curriculum, he also would go on periodic rants about managing money. My son (who recently was telling me they should teach personal finance in high school) still remembers one class where he told the kids that if you get a job you should always put in whatever the minimum amount required to get the maximum benefit from your company in your retirement plan. It’s free money!
I approve of the concept in general, but the implementation is not always good (as several have mentioned above). I do think the idea of fulfilling the requirement by exam/self study should be allowed.
A personal finance class is required in our state, but having watched my S go through it I don’t like how our state does it. First, it’s a full year class, and with the coursework expectations of good colleges and other state requirements, it leaves very little time in the schedule for electives, especially if you have a music kid or drama kid or varsity sports kid who typically has at least one full year elective for their main interest already. My kid is a senior and was never able to take an elective other than music and foreign language (which is technically a requirement and also expected by most colleges), and he opted for the online version of personal finance.
My S’s class was not only personal finance, but it also amounted to an intro to business/entrepreneurship and an intro to micro and macroeconomics as well, to the point where I thought they got TOO much of the latter, and not enough emphasis on or reinforcement of the more immediately relevant and useful personal finance stuff. Also, most kids in our district take the class online, which is a pass/fail option and I don’t think they get much out of it. I’d rather see the requirement be a one semester class that focuses primarily on the personal finance side, perhaps with an option to pair it with a one semester “Personal Finance II” that includes the other stuff.
It is a dunderhead class here, done in summer before high school for anyone who has an sense. Apparently it doesn't teach anything valuable. The subject is good dinnertime chit chat though. If a college aged kid doesn't know the difference between a credit and debit card, they are probably sheltered. As per Blossom, it is less the kids with no money or access to money that we need to worry about , it is their parents. We see enough financial education here on CC.
My DD just took a class as a graduating Senior from Pitt and I think it was one of the best things she could have done. It was only a 1 credit class that met 1X per week but it will be invaluable. These days, just to understand the benefit package, you need to have the background ie. % for retirement, roth vs regular IRAs, HSAs. The final was an accurate budget based on her known salary and living expenses. She will graduate knowing what she can afford for rent or to buy, what insurance costs, how much to contribute to savings - she has a complete plan. It also explained all the various investment options. Probably one of the most valuable classes she ever took.
“As per Blossom, it is less the kids with no money or access to money that we need to worry about , it is their parents. We see enough financial education here on CC.”
You’ve got to break the cycle somehow. If these kids’ parents are clueless, who are they going to learn from?
Sounds like some schools have some programs that are less than stellar but better to tweak the program and make it useful and workable than to get rid of it.
One of my kids took a 1/2 credit class during the short January term in college and found it stellar. It went well beyond debit vs. credit cards as @gtaustin describes above. The class is so popular that even staff members and faculty sign up for it every year. My guess is most parents here could take it and learn a thing or two.
If such a course (with credit by exam option) were required in high school, it may be best to encourage taking it (or the exam) before 12th grade, and include material on college funding and financial aid. Too many high school students and their parents come to this forum with overly optimistic expectations of college financial aid and need the reality checks that other posters give them, while others may not realize that some colleges with high list prices have good financial aid and scholarship opportunities that they may benefit from.
Since we are on cc, I understand the sentiment. But then, many urban districts are struggling to get their students to come to class everyday…even so, a 50% dropout rate is not uncommon. Now, let’s tell such students that they must take a class on college financing? Hmmmmm.
@ucbalumnus: “Was he afraid of the exponential functions that may be used when calculating compound interest?”
After all my time being exposed to your ‘voice’ on this site, and happy to encounter it, I am now crazy curious about that voice. That comment is so.spot.on.
Our high school makes it mandatory for every senior to have a baby for a day or two. They walk with their babies down the halls and bring them to class and then take them home. The baby cries every fifteen minutes and they have to take care of it. Teen pregnancy was a major problem in previous generations.
Seniors pick elective courses such as Finance, Writing A Play, Economics, and Entrepreneurship. None of them are required courses.
The class should be handle as your life. Other courses like AP can wait. The course can help how to maintain so many things and understand what is what… Unfortunately, kids these days are lazy and only care about AP credits and not about what’s ahead.
I don’t think a semester or year long class is necessary, but a mandatory half day seminar on college financing and basic budgeting could pre-empt a lot of cc questions.
My kids both had some financial ed during 9th grade health, including making a budget – projected earnings and expenses, etc. Boy Scouts also required folks to make and use a budget and learn financial literacy.
Neither of our kids has had any trouble learning the rest as they needed to. S found bogleheads.org and whitecoatinvestor.org as well as a bunch of other helpful websites. He has no debt and has more CCs than I (which he pays off entirely before they are due) plus a great credit score. He also has a great emergency fund and significant retirement savings. Our D also has no debt and a great credit score and a few credit cards.
Virginia high school students are required to take personal finance to graduate. Do the students take it seriously? Some do. Some do not. One student told me that it was the most valuable class she took this year. She has a good understanding of student loans and how they work. Important since she is heading to college.
I think it should be offered but optional. My kiddos are lucky enough not to have student loans. They asked us about credit cards and so on at the appropriate time. They already knew we paid off ours every month (and why) and that we’d paid off our mortgage early. Now that kid 1 is out of college, she asks advice about saving for retirement, Roth 401ks etc etc. She’s the one who told me about Mint for personal finance tracking!
What I’m getting at is that kids are far more likely to pay attention at the right time for them. A lot of things covered will seem so blue sky (mortgages) as to be irrelevant.
"What I’m getting at is that kids are far more likely to pay attention at the right time for them. "
I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. I think it might apply to the bulk of CC kids whose parents have at least a small clue, but not to HS students as a group.
In our house, we begin teaching financial literacy at a young age and are pretty open about our finances. Even my 15-year-old has a basic understanding of debit vs credit cards, loans and interest, retirement accounts, credit scores, and more. Despite not having a job, she knows what FICA is and gross pay vs. take-home pay. But most kids, especially kids in low- to moderate-income homes, aren’t exposed to finances.
Look at it this way, a finance class will be greatly beneficial to a majority of kids whose parents don’t understand finance or who assume their kids already know it, and it can be an “easy A” for some kids to bolster their GPA for selective colleges. And, if the honor student can’t get that A, maybe they really do need to be in the class after all.
