Peyton Place - December CC Book Club Selection

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Metalious stepped over the line herself in regards to Tomas Makris. He was a colleague of Grace’s husband (principal) and his name and physical description made it into Peyton Place. He sued:

Famously, Metalious was sued for libel by one of the people who was included in the book. Tomas Makris was featured in Peyton Place , and his name and physical characteristics matched the real-life individual. Notably, the character’s name in the UK edition was changed to Michael Kyros, and the character’s name was changed in later US editions to Michael Rossi. In a shocking twist that infuriated many, Metalious had actually forged Makris’ name on the release form. Such behavior is of course condemned by the literary community.

I understand Makris’ name was changed in the TV series and in the movie but am less sure about books in the U.S.

Grace also alienated others in the town though none as egregiously as poor Mr. Makris. (Actually I’m curious as to why she evidently wanted Makris in the book badly enough to forge his name.)

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22

I agree with this…up to a point. The rape fantasy of 1930’s (40’s, 50’s…) is a real thing. However, Tom’s rape of Connie was not merely a case of erotica’s “forced seduction” – a term I just learned that I think describes the Rhett-Scarlett / Luke-Laura scenarios.

Rather, Connie’s rape involves some frightening violence. From p. 265:

He stood her on the floor beside the bed and slapped her a stunning blow across the mouth with the back of his hand.

“Don’t open your mouth again,” he said quietly. “Just keep your mouth shut.” He bent over her and ripped the still wet bathing suit from her body, and in the dark, she heard the sound of his zipper opening as he took off his trunks. "Now, he said. “Now.”

This is so out of keeping with Tom’s character as it unfolds throughout the rest of the book. He is a progressive thinker, supportive of independent women and sexual freedom, thoughtful and patient with the women he loves (Connie and Allison). I can’t reconcile these two facets of his character. Is it a flaw in the writing? Or–given what @ignatius just posted–was there some kind of real life love-hate relationship that Metallious was working through?

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23

I think Metallious had a mean streak. I kept trying to say, yes in the 1950s that scene may have seemed romantic, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

I also was taken aback by the use of the n-word. I meant to go look back and see if it was always the same character using it. Did his explanation for why he did make sense? It seemed so strange to me in a book without any Black characters, that Metallious made a point of having the town founded by a Black man.

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I thought that was fascinating. Not just a Black man, but a Black man married to a white woman. The community is named after the Peytons, yet it is the community that destroys them. They are completely ostracized. Clayton Frazier tells the reporter Delaney: “Samuel and Vi’let moved in and neither one of 'em ever set foot outside these walls again” (p. 578).

Re the Peyton castle, Clayton adds that “inside, things has rotted away.” I think that line is intended to be a metaphor for the town itself. I thought of the “rotted away” description when Tom says (crudely) later: “I haven’t met ten people in this goddamed town who don’t need to spend the next year douching out their goddammed souls.”

@mathmom, I read the book on a Kindle and it was easy for me to track the N word. Lots of characters use it --the good, the bad and the ugly: Kenny Stearns, Doc Swain, the nurse Mary Kelley, Clayton Frazier, etc. In 1939, it was commonplace, so I recognize there’s historical context to consider.

Also, I want to point out that when Mary Kelley uses the N word, it’s part of an internal monologue on prejudice, where she reflects on what society teaches vs. what society practices (p. 270). Despite her word choice, she is thinking way ahead of her time, far more advanced than her peers. I believe Doc Swain saw that complexity in Mary, and it’s why he chose her to assist him with Selena’s abortion. He knew she would ponder both sides of the issue and show tolerance and compassion.

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I liked Mary Kelley. She always made the right choices.

I have to figure out how to do the tracking thing on the Kindle. I have it, I just don’t use it very well, but this morning I was just lazy!

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@VeryHappy, I’m re-posting your observations because they are worth reflecting on again. I have to keep telling myself, “1939, 1939, 1939” because otherwise I fall into the mode of analyzing these women and their choices as if they lived in the 21st century. I just wish there had been a romantic relationship in the book that didn’t undercut their burgeoning feminism. However, I think there’s a hint of something good in the romances to come. It is suggested at the end that the young lawyer Peter Drake is interested in Selena; and of course, the no-nonsense David Noyes is interested in Allison. Both of these men know each woman’s full (scandalous) history and accept it.

By the way, I got a kick out of Betty Anderson. I felt bad that she was “dealt with” by the Harringtons. She tried to hold her own with Leslie Harrington, but he was too powerful to oppose.

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27

The use of the n-word made me uncomfortable whenever it showed up. I understand that its usage in the 1930s-40s was by no means uncommon. I doubt that readers in the 1950s, at the time of publication, found it quite as jarring as I did. What I don’t quite understand is its place in this particular book … it has no relevance in the story. An underlying prejudice on the part of the author perhaps or maybe an indictment of the prejudice of those surrounding her.

What surprised me:

*the time frame within the novel

*how relevant certain topics remain

*Metalious can write. I somehow equated Metalious’ “scandalous” book with Fifty Shades of Grey. There is no comparison, in my opinion, between the skill of the authors.

I enjoyed the book much more than expected and understand why it took off like it did in the 50s. I mentioned it at a book club, where the ladies are in their 70s-80s, and all remember it. One mentioned being in college at the time of the tv series and all the girls crowding around the communal set to watch each episode. Another lady, working on her Ph.d in physics at the time, remembers sneak-reading it and admitting the fact to no one.

I’m glad I read it and have since passed it on to a friend. She too has noted that it could have been written today (minus the prevalence of the n-word, historically accurate or not.)

I’m always surprised when all of a sudden a particular book catches the attention of one and all. If not read, everyone knows of it. In our time, Fifty Shades of Grey or even Where the Crawdads Sing (though maybe less so than the other two) seemed to be the “it” book of the moment. I don’t think either will hold up 50+ years like Peyton Place seems to have done.

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Re “Tom Makris” I’ve read an edition where the character’s name was changed. “Something (Michael?) Conti,” IIRC. The edition I have now uses Makris.

I’m solidly in the “this book is feminist” camp. It’s about power and the abuse of power. That informs every slur, every rape, every backroom decision, every guilt trip, every dead end. I can’t think of anything more feminist.

Strongly agree that Metalious had a mean streak. Why is that a bad thing? There’s plenty in the truth she’s illuminating that warrants vicious treatment. All I can think is “Go, Grace.”

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I didn’t know Tomas Makris was someone’s real name. I’m stunned Metalious would do that.

And Yes, I completely agree with @ignatius that Metalious can write. I thought her descriptions of places were phenomenal, and she painted the characters vividly.

Yes, of course there were some things that were specific to the 1930s/40s, but I think the overall themes and stories were very forward thinking.

ETA: I hope you all aren’t sorry that we chose this.

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@VeryHappy, I’m VeryHappy that we chose this! :smile:

So many avenues for discussion and I’m really glad I read it. Just because I don’t want to live in Peyton Place doesn’t mean the book wasn’t a page-turner – as well as amazingly relevant to 2022 issues.

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31

I finished this book with a like/dislike feeling. I’m glad I read it. I’m not sure I would recommend it. I didn’t really know anything about the story ahead of time except that it was made into a TV soap opera in the 60s. With that little bit of knowledge, the book was not what I expected. It felt too evil at times and every storyline set up a disaster. It was a bit much.

I didn’t really get the Tom and Constance relationship. The rape scene was horrible and I agree that it seemed out of his character. What exactly was Tom’s character? Macho? Progressive? Thoughtful? I don’t think we ever really knew Tom. We know he went to Columbia, was an educator, and moved to Peyton Place from New York City, but did we ever get to really know his past? Any any of his personal relationships? It always felt like there was something big there that wasn’t unveiled. Did I read too fast and miss it?

I didn’t really see the woman’s movement storyline on my own. There was just too much else going on to bring it into focus for me. After reading @VeryHappy’s comments, I can consider that point of view. By the end of the story, the main female characters in the next generation are stronger and more self-confident than the women before them.

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32

I’m definitely not sorry we chose this book. I’m not on board with the feminist aspect but plan to think on that a bit. It just seems all power rests with the male characters who either step in to solve the problem or not and the females seem to acquiesce.

I agree though with @Caraid: “By the end of the story, the main female characters in the next generation are stronger and more self-confident than the women before them.”

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33

Great article. Hanging my head, because I only read a few chapters, and ditched the book, and not because of any racy or steamy sex scenes, that was compelling reason to read it. I didn’t want to be reminded of the era, before womens rights, because the climate today is pushing us back there.

This book seems like a great one for discussion seeing grace as a feminist, vs trapped in her times writing a scandalous book about her town.

So kudos for all who read it, and discussing now!

From Ignatius link

“ Today, Peyton Place appears on women’s-studies curricula at universities, including Louisiana State, where the book is required reading in a course taught by Professor Emily Toth, Grace’s Boswell. “It’s a breakthrough for freedom of expression,” she says. "

It set new parameters for what you could say in a book—especially about women. It was an exciting, dirty book."

Ten years ago, Ardis Cameron, a professor at the University of Southern Maine, was astonished to discover the title was out of print, and mounted a one-woman campaign to resurrect it.

She eventually persuaded Northeastern University Press to reissue the novel, and wrote a Camille Paglia–worthy introduction that casts Grace as a literary Joan of Arc, sword drawn, swinging at the oppressive social conventions of the 50s.

The book, says Cameron, “spoke about things that were not discussed in polite society, and allowed people to talk about all sorts of issues—but particularly their own sense of being different in the 1950s.”

Carry on, great discussion ……

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And, I didn’t know before the tv phenom, it was a movie, with nine academy award nominations, but didn’t win any Oscar.

I might try to find the movie, although very watered down version of the book.

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I also ditched it, first book in a book club that I did this. I just did not want to relive of what is happening now.

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I’m glad I had the opportunity to read a novel that I’ve often heard referenced but had never read.

It seems to me the book portrays the need for feminist progress (much of which thankfully has been accomplished, though not as much so as I’d like).

I can easily believe that quaint small towns had the kind of behavior in the book. But it go harder and harder to believe that such a small place could have so many disasters within a small cast of characters.

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Absolutely. That’s what I meant earlier when I mentioned Kathy’s arm getting torn off at the carnival. At that point, I felt like the author was just throwing in as many unspeakable tragedies as she could come up with. But that sort of plays to the over-the-top aspect that made it a bestseller. It still holds true today, as seen in @ignatius’ example of Where the Crawdads Sing – no spoilers from me, but a lot of unbelievable stuff goes down in that book.

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38

Not at all unhappy it was chosen. Even if ultimately the book irritated me more than I liked it, it was always interesting and a page turner.

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39

I think about some small, desperate towns around here (I live in northern New England), and I find clusters of tragedy among a small group of people very credible. Systemic misogyny and other factors contribute to a plausible quantity of harassment, rape, incest that leads to pregnancy. The Catholic Church was (cynical me says “is”) protecting and relocating rapists. Alcohol and other drug use and abuse lead to all sorts of calamities. Child abuse needs no explanation. In the mid-2000s we were sending people off to war, and those who came back did so with visible and invisible wounds. All this, if we’re staying location-specific, thrives in far-flung isolated communities where “independence” and “minding one’s own business” are seen as virtues. All the ingredients are present for horrific events – we’re lucky when they DON’T happen.

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40

I finished the book a couple of weeks ago so my memories are dimming. I do remember for the first few dozen pages, I was tempted to quit. Then eventually I reached a point where I couldn’t stop. One memory I do have is of the language - all of the personalizations of seasons was good reading. And descriptions were very clear - I could really see the people and the town.

I don’t think I liked any of the characters - never saw the movie or watched the show. My impression starting out was of Mia Farrow from news stories of the time of the series so it was a jolt to dislike Allison so much. I was trying to think of another similar character from around the same time but could only come up with Francie Nolan from A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, which wasn’t quite the same time. But such a more likeable girl.

I was thrown by the whole sequence of a bunch of men locking themselves into a basement and drinking themselves insensible for weeks. Was that supposed to be realistic in any way? Did it go on in small towns in New England a lot ;)? I understand aspects of the experience went into plot lines but it just seemed so strange.

You really do have to disassociate the book from current times and accept it being written in the 50’s about the 30’s and 40’s. Certainly forced or pressured sex leading to love was very common in romance novels last century. I cringe when I reread or think of books that didn’t bother me 30 years ago; so called “bodice rippers” like Sweet Savage Love by Rosemary Rogers.

Representing some of the problematic politics of the 1970s, rape is a major plot device in many bodice rippers, meaning that in most cases the ripping and removal of clothing isn’t consensual. With heroines eventually falling in love with their rapists, the books offer an uncomfortably sanitized glamorization of rape and romance that modern readers understandably find difficult to contend with…

I am glad this book was chosen because I’ve had a vague impression for decades of what is was and now I know!

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