<p>IDK if this is the right forum to post this, but what the heck. Anyways, I've seen Ph.D./MD programs at many medical schools. I am wondering if this is a feasible track, if you guys would suggest this to anyone. I am interested in becoming a doctor while doing research at the same time, so this program makes some sort of sense to me.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>MD/PhD is a feasible track if you want to be a physician-researcher. Admission to MD/PhD programs are extremely competitive. Much moreso than straight MD programs. You will need a strong undergrad research record in order to be viable candidate.</p>
<p>BTW, you can be a physician-researcher without having a PhD and you can be do medical research without being a MD.</p>
<p>(I have one D going to med school; her BF is getting his PhD in oncology without getting an MD. My other D may be applying to MD/PhD programs after a glide year. Lots of possible permutations.)</p>
<p>I would assume that joint PhD/MD programs are longer than either a PhD program or MD on its own right?</p>
<p>MD programs are 4 years. Plus internship & residency.</p>
<p>Science PhDs are usually 4-6 years. (Depends on how quickly you pass your qualifying exams and get started on your dissertation research.) Plus 1 or more 2-year post-docs if you want an academic position.</p>
<p>MD/PhDs are usually 7-8 years. Plus internship and any residency needed for his specialty. Generally, the student does the first 2 years of medical school (the classroom portion), then completes the required coursework for his PHD field (2-3 semesters) and does his dissertation research (2-3 years), then returns to the medical school to complete the clinical portion of his medical education (2 years).</p>
<p>Generally they are 7 years, though some may push to 8.</p>
<p>MD/PhD students take the first two years of medical school (pre-clinical), take Step I of the USMLE, then take 3 (or 4) years to complete their PhD portion, before returning to the clinical side and finishing up the last 2 years of medical school including going through the Match for residency placement as a 4th year. To put that in perspective, they graduate at the same time that some of their original medical school classmates complete residency (those who are doing family med, Internal Medicine, or Pediatrics).</p>
<p>The path is one that is not for everyone, and I’d argue that it’s the correct path for an even smaller sub-section than those that complete it. While I understand the overall goal of the MSTP, of the people I know personally who are MD/PhD (through a combined degree program), they freely admit that they sacrificed excellence in both fields for the combined degree, and that they don’t feel it’s opened many doors for them. Granted, they’re young, and their careers are just starting, but considering the sentiments, I don’t think that’s a very ringing endorsement of the concept.</p>
<p>Hm thank you both for your inputs. My main goal is to be able to do research while being a doctor at the same time [ if that’s even possible to begin with ], so I am currently looking at all my options. WOWM said that I can do research even without a PhD, so that’s a plus.</p>
<p>There are other possibilities. Some MD schools have formal Research Tracks, some have physician investigator 5 year programs (Pitt and all Cleveland Clinic students), some have Medical Master’s programs geared to research. Look for all of these. My D seriously considered MD/PhD and may still be (although I think she’d be mentioning it more if she was). But she is doing a research year between MS2 and 3.</p>
<p>BigRedMed,</p>
<p>The NIH’s pattern of funding would disagree with those sentiments (and I’ve heard them from others, so not necessarily disagreeing with you), since MD/PhDs are something on the order of 15x more likely to get a grant than MDs or PhDs based on the percent of grant applications from MD/PhDs compared to grant awards to MD/PhDs.</p>
<p>Although I would agree that MD/PhDs are most likely not going to be the absolute best physicians or scientists. The point of the degree, in my opinion, is not simply to do both, but to do something that is different from either. You are approaching scientific research and clinical medicine with a background distinct from most of your colleagues. Typically you are asking questions that differ from the PhDs in your field, and you understand a given field of clinical practice in a way that most MDs do not.</p>
<p>Also note that I speak in generalities to show that being just an MD or PhD does not preclude you from these approaches (although being just a PhD obviously does preclude you from clinical work). The point of the program isn’t necessarily to provide you with something no one else can do, it’s to provide you with the best chance to do what you want to do.</p>
<p>Brown,</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with the success of MD/PhD’s in the grant competition. However, I think the there are some pretty significant concerns about the structure of the program. Medical schools make a big deal about how med students shouldn’t worry about picking a specialty until they have a chance to experience clinical medicine, but we force students down this MD/PhD path before they even take the MCAT. That’s a significant disconnect in my mind, and one that significantly limits the overall effectiveness of the MSTP by decreasing the yield of students who complete the program and actually go on to work as true physician scientists.</p>
<p>To the OP, I would also make note of the fact that in some situations, being an MD doesn’t mean simply you CAN do research, but in fact that you MUST. For example, after finishing my pediatrics residency, I will be going into a pediatric critical care fellowship. All pediatric fellowships (the training necessary to become a subspecialist) are 3 years in length and roughly 50% of that time is dedicated to a “scholarly project”, which in this day and age means a research project. It can a be basic science project or more clinically related. So there are definitely ways in which research can be incorporated into your career.</p>
<p>Bigredmed,</p>
<p>What do you mean by “before they take the MCAT?” Do you mean Step 1? I took the MCAT before I started my apps, as did most applicants I know…</p>
<p>Perhaps what he means is that to prepare yourself for an MD/PhD acceptance, you need to spend several years pursuing 1-2 meaningful research experiences, which may cost you in the volunteering/clinical experiences department (as you have limited time)–making it more difficult for you to go the MD-only route–and all this occurs before an applicant takes the MCAT. </p>
<p>To the OP: I feel like there are a few good sources of info if you are interesting in MD/PhD. Foremost, I would recommend the Physician Scientist forums at student doctor network:</p>
<p>[Physician</a> Scientist [MD/PhD, MD/MS, DO/PhD, DDS/PhD] and Biomedical Research [PhD/MS] - Student Doctor Network Forums](<a href=“Physician Scientists | Student Doctor Network”>Physician Scientists | Student Doctor Network)</p>
<p>There are a lot of MD/PhD students, residents, and attendings there that provide helpful and useful information.</p>
<p>^ thank you so much for that site. Will look into it.</p>