PhD Aerospace and double major

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I am currently a junior in college (graduate in dec 2015) pursuing BS in aerospace engg with minors in phys and math. Princeton is one of my highest priorities for grad school (PhD) due to some of the faculty members and their research programs. At the same time I know it is extremely selective (for good reason). Since my normal graduation date is dec and princeton accepts grad students only in the fall, I have from Jan-Sept to do something else. I have 3 terms of research experience already and am looking at continuing it through my undergrad.</p>

<p>I have a dilemma, All the physics classes I have taken or am taking, I do extremely well with relative less effort than my engg classes. It seems to come more naturally to me. So I am considering a double major in Physics which if i start next fall I can graduate by doing an extra semester (Spring 16). Do you think it is worth it? Career wise? Would it help my graduate application or would it hinder? Right now I am looking at grad in in aerospace but if i go for the physics, I could also work in applied phys (fusion power, plasma etc) which I am highly interested in too. So my final question would be, is all this trouble going to be worth it? </p>

<p>PS none of the aero or phys courses overlap except freshman year physics!</p>

<p>I’m a MAE major here at Princeton. Besides Caltech, you will not find a more selective engineering program than Princeton. The grad program here is very small which has its ups and downs. Which faculty members are you most interested in?
From the sound of it, it seems like Princeton may be your only choice. I suggest that you apply to other schools as well.
If you are interested in applied physics, especially in plasma physics, then you should look into UMich’s electric propulsion program.
IMO, the electric propulsion program here directed by Chouieri is not doing too well. </p>

<p>I don’t think it will help you too much if you double major grad school wise.
It depends on what you mean by worth it. For industry, it will surely expand your opportunities. For grad school, it will not be very beneficial unless you’re set on applied physics.</p>

<p>Thanks for the response, its definitely more valuable since you are in the program itself. Well I am looking at Stanford, UMich, GaTech as well. I was interested in EP but everyone I have talked to has said the same thing, there is no money. I was looking at Kasdin, Choueri and few others. Mainly dynamics (orbitals, space systems) or propulsion or maybe go a differnt track in fusion tech. My biggest push for the double major (apart from interest in physics) was the time period that i will be out of school before i start grad school. </p>

<p>Thing is, I am an international student and getting a job on space based technology is really difficult (Thanks to ITAR). SO i wanted to have options but turns out Fusion tech has the same issues. </p>

<p>Anyway, as a side note, what would make a strong application for grad school at princeton? I am hoping to go out with 3.7+ GPA, 3 years of research, possibly a paper and definitely an undergraduate thesis. Would that be good enough? Anything that would specifically enhance the application?</p>

<p>I don’t know what is good enough as I am not part of the adcom, but it seems most of the graduate students I’ve talked to had a 3.8+, but it likely depends on your undergrad institution. A 3.7 vs. 3.8 isn’t that big of a difference.
I do know that Princeton will not admit you if your interests are not close to any of the profs. You probably know this as it’s pretty much the same with all the top insitutions. </p>

<p>Are you an international student attending a non-US institution or an international student attending a US institution? I’ve seen and heard that internationals are hold to higher standards, but personally, I feel like I’ve never seen that happen and it’s hard to compare with domestic applicants since the culture and learning process are so different. </p>

<p>I’m not in the EP field, but I’ve heard from some industries that UMich’s EP program, directed by Gallimore, is currently the best. GaTech has a dude named Walker (student of Gallimore’s) and kinda awkward in a funny way. i.e., he talks really fast and usually prefers phone calls over email. </p>

<p>Idk about Stanford’s program; I didn’t even know they had an electric propulsion group. MIT also has a space propulsion group, but it doesn’t seem like anyone ever talks about it.
JPL is pretty big on EP, but I don’t think Caltech does much of that themselves, ironically.</p>

<p>If you do wind up coming to Caltech, there is always the possibility of being coadvised by someone at JPL. That’s what I’m currently doing, though in a slightly different field from you guys.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about graduating a semester early. I was deciding on adding a double major in physics along with my engineering degree by taking an extra term, but just decided to finish early and stick with my minor (and only taking the classes I was really interested in). I wound up working with a professor from my undergrad school from January through July, and really enjoyed the experience. It gave me the feeling of being a full time grad student more than just a summer project did, but I didn’t have the long term commitment you get as an actual student. You can also look into joining a lab early, since there’s a good chance you know which school you’ll want to attend by April. A few of my friends showed up in June/July and were able to get a couple of month head start on getting research started. It’s really tough to do that when you’re also starting with a full load of classes, so I kinda wish I had done the same thing.</p>

<p>I don’t think stanford has an EP program either, If i did go to stanford or GaTech, it would be for space systems. Actually i was considering CalTech too, but when you look up their website, you feel the department in heavily concentrated on fluid dynamics. I couldn’t find someone who was doing propulsion (advanced tech not chemical) or space systems or orbital dynamics. Maybe RacinReaver could talk about that more, if there are people getting their PhD in either of these fields. Also, how would you apply for a co-adviser at JPL? DO you just apply and the department finds you one? Also how does it affect your chances of acceptance there? </p>

<p>As for MIT, from what I have read online they seem to put a lot of weight on grades, at least the gradute students that I looked into. A 3.7-3.8 doesn’t seem enough.</p>

<p>Also I am an international student at a US institution. It is a top 10 in aerospace too, but we concentrate a lot on aerodynamics, airplane dynamics, materials and structures. But we do have a few people in propulsion but no one that I know is concentrating on advanced propulsion or space system/dynamics. There is 1 graduate student who is doing EP but its computational. The mech dept has a professor from Princeton who has developed a really good lab for experimental EP and plasma.</p>

<p>

Well, in your particular situation I don’t think it will make much of a difference either way. Double majors are usually not much of an advantage, because all they really do is broaden your options for your first job, after which they do nothing. And they can hurt you if prospective employers see it as a sign of indecisiveness or a lack of commitment to whichever field they are hiring you for. </p>

<p>Think about your other options for that time - is there anything else you can do (full-time research, building giant killer robots, etc.) that will help you more? It is hard to fill a semester between undergrad and grad school, so this might well be the best thing you can do with that time, however marginal it is.</p>

<p>Engineering is not my field. However, if you have a 3.7+ when you graduate, stop worrying. That’s not low enough to keep you out of anywhere; if you don’t get accepted somewhere, it’s unlikely that it was because your GPA was too low. Programs admit students with a range of GPAs (within reason - most are a 3.5+, but outstanding applicants with slightly lower GPAs are admitted too) and students with lower ones may be less likely to share their undergrad GPA with you.</p>

<p>I honestly don’t think a double-major will do much for you for grad school. Take extra classes in physics if you need to; spend the time taking classes in techniques you might need for a grad program. But I agree with cosmicfish that your time is better spent building giant killer robots (or, you know, full-time research is okay too).</p>

<p>Propulsion is a bit outside of my realm of expertise, sadly. You might want to look at both faculty in GALCIT (the aero program), applied physics, and physics. Each of the departments has a very different flavor.</p>

<p>I wound up with my coadvisor through connections of my advisor. It’s generally not a very formal thing, just that some labs may collaborate with JPL than others. Depending on the direction your work takes, you might wind up spending a decent amount of time up there.</p>

<p>Also, I will agree with what you said about MIT requiring a very high GPA. I know in my field only one person from my undergrad department got in (and we all got in just about everywhere). She said they seemed to be taking everyone with an astronomical GPA, and she was amazed how many people didn’t even have any previous research experience. This might just be my field, though.</p>

<p>I’m guessing that you go to TAMU?
I actually visited the aero-dpt and Staack’s (I think that’s who you’re referring to) lab this summer.
I heard the main guy in the aero-department doing propulsion field is a giant *******. Cismas or something. I think I may also know the grad student you’re referring to. Small world. </p>

<p>Fluids is actually my concentration, but propulsion and fluids are really intertwined. That’s why you see many labs that do both. Caltech’s aero department only has like 12 profs, and like half of them are profs in multiple departments. That program is extremely small. I think they only accept like 10-20 grad students per year. I haven’t looked into their MECH department though, but I assume it’s much bigger and more varied in research areas. </p>

<p>I’m actually surprised there aren’t more computational guys in EP than experimental given how expensive it is to run those experiments accurately and the price costs associated with xenon .</p>

<p>yeah you got it right, Dr. Staack. And you are either talking about Cizmas or Dr. Kapetis. Karpetis is a giant in combustion. Never looked up cizmas, so not really sure of him. Good that you are in fluids, so you would know a lot about the field. BTW what did you think about A&M? How did it ‘look’ different from where you are?
Yeah the prices for EP are high and the funding on the down road. Which doesn’t really leave a lot many other propulsion options (solar sail maybe), Is there anything at princeton that would fall under space propulsion (except EP)? If not, i am really looking at space systems, dynamics or fluids ofcourse. Infact I am currently working on hypersonic fluids. </p>

<p>Also would it be better to work in a single research group through the entire undergraduate career so as to make substantial contributions on a a field or would graduate schools prefer an undergraduate who has worked in multiple groups? The stuff I am working on right now is fresh and we except some big breakthroughs but it will take time to get it to that point. The project has just started this year. My main concern is that i would have worked in fluids through undergraduate, but i might apply for space systems or dynamics too, would that be a problem in any way?
PS are you a former student?</p>

<p>I like TAMU, they have several world class faculty in the aero department. It’s definitely very different though. Princeton’s small, very small. You will probably find a higher percentage of arrogant people here than elsewhere. It’s probably not the best place social-wise. </p>

<p>I do not believe there’s any space propulsion research other than EP, at least not for the MAE dpt.
[Princeton</a> Plasma Physics Lab | A Collaborative National Center for Fusion & Plasma Research](<a href=“http://www.pppl.gov/]Princeton”>http://www.pppl.gov/) Check this out though. There’s several faculty members in this group and Choueieri is one of them. The EP group has their own website as well.</p>

<p>I think graduate schools will not pick one over the other if they are open minded and they should be open minded. For me, I’ve done research in a lot of areas: EP, controls, experimental and computational fluids. So you can see I switched around quite a bit. I think it’s important to explain why you tried different fields. If you stuck with one lab, then great, explain why you did.</p>