<p>I am a mechanical engineering major looking to apply for graduate school next year (I will start grad school Fall 2012). I want to go into research so I'm aiming for a PhD. I noticed some schools allow you to apply directly to a MS/PhD program (like UC Berkeley and University of Michigan) straight out of undergraduate so you would earn your Master's and then your PhD as part of one continuous program.</p>
<p>First of all, from what I've heard, Master's are not usually funded but Phd's are. Does this mean that both degrees in a MS/PhD would typically be funded or only the PhD? </p>
<p>Secondly, I am curious about what kind of obligations there are for someone admitted into such a MS/PhD program. For example, could they only get a Master's and then leave with no repercussions? Could they get the Master's and then apply to another school for their PhD?</p>
<p>It seems like if schools funded both degrees of a MS/PhD program and didn't obligate students to stay for the PhD then some students who only want a MS could game the system. They could apply for the MS/PhD when they don't even intend to get a PhD and then simply leave after they got their MS. But, on the other hand, I don't see how an institution can obligate a student to stay for 3-6 years working on a PhD if the student is unwilling to do so.</p>
<p>FYI I'm not asking these questions because I intend to game the system, I'm just curious about what obligations MS/PhD programs have and how I should treat schools with MS/PhD programs vs. ones that only let you apply to the next degree you wish to receive.</p>
<p>There is no obligation. You’re correct in assuming that there’s no way for a school to force someone to stay.</p>
<p>In general, the MS in such programs is awarded en route to the Ph.D - also, if the program faculty don’t feel you’re hacking it, they can award you a terminal MS and gently ease you out the door.</p>
<p>Leaving an MS/PhD program for PhD in a better school is extremely frowned upon in many programs. Some profs won’t fund your research if you don’t commit to PhD.</p>
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<p>Both. MS/PhD tracks are usually funded and MS only not.</p>
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<p>If your research/education is funded through RAship, many schools, including mine, stipulate a minimum number of semesters that you are required to work with an advisor before you can leave or switch advisors. You need to consult legal office/honor code committee about this issue.</p>
<p>Sure, I didn’t say it wasn’t frowned upon. He’d be pretty much screwed as far as any future study is concerned - good luck getting letters of recommendation.</p>
<p>But graduate school isn’t indentured servitude or the military. No school can force a student to enroll or attend. If you leave after earning a master’s degree, you’re still counted as a graduate.</p>
<p>Hmmm… so say you want to get a PhD and you enroll in a MS/PhD program. Then let’s say you still want to get a PhD but you really don’t want to stay at that program for whatever reason (maybe it’s not at all what you expected, bad area, whatever…). You’re just out of luck in that case? </p>
<p>I’m going to be applying to schools all over the country and looking at the posts on this board it looks like that is common. I can’t possibly visit all of the schools so applying to a MS/PhD combined program in a school I’ve never even visited seems like a huge leap of faith if there is no way to get out without being “frowned upon” as you say.</p>
<p>It really depends on how you leave the program.</p>
<p>If you, at some point fairly early on, indicate that you’d prefer to leave after an MS, and work as if that’s your goal, it won’t necessarily be held against you.</p>
<p>What you don’t want to do is get deeply involved in a professor’s lab and research project, become a key member of his/her research team, and then abruptly quit. Professors are investing their time and money in you, remember.</p>
<p>True. It’s about the $. That’s why the most common way is to join a MS/PhD program with a fellowship or TA or out of your own pocket, not on a Prof’s dime. Then you can tell the prof you’re gonna work with up front that you plan to leave with an MS. </p>
<p>There are exceptions as well. When I was applying to graduate school I was contacted by a prof from UCLA who was interested in hiring me. When I told him I have an offer from a better school, he said if I join his lab and do an MS with him he would help me go to Stanford for PhD. </p>
<p>So in sum, it all comes down to what arrangement you make with your advisor.</p>
<p>I’m not in engineering but I went into an MA/PhD program straight from undergrad. If you are funded you are typically funded for both portions of the degree - through coursework and the dissertation.</p>
<p>There aren’t any obligations, per se. You can easily drop out after you finish the MA, theoretically speaking. However, it’s not at all easy to finish your master’s and apply to another school for your PhD. First of all, a lot of PhD programs will make you start over again, especially if you received a non-terminal MS from somewhere else as part of a PhD program. Secondly, you need support from your current institution because your intended school is going to want to see recommendations from your current advisors and professors. If they feel like you played them by using up the resources that could’ve been dedicated to a more serious student and then bailing, they won’t support you.</p>
<p>On a more personal, unspoken level - it can sometimes be very hard to emotionally extricate yourself from a PhD program after finishing the MA part. If you intended to get a PhD and then lost interest, you may feel like a failure, or you may feel like you have nowhere else to go and nothing else to do. You may wonder what you would be good at, especially if you’ve gone straight from high school to undergrad to a PhD. You may feel like you’re letting down your advisors and colleagues who worked so hard to help you out. This is one of the reasons I advise students who are vacillating to take time off before graduate school. That way, at least you know that there is a world out there other than school. When all you’ve ever done is school, it’s difficult to imagine yourself doing anything else, and that can be seriously dangerous if you realize that PhD work just isn’t for you.</p>
<p>IMO, you absolutely have to visit a school before you commit to attending. In undergrad I don’t think it’s so vital, but for graduate school, definitely. Of course you might not be able to afford to visit all the schools to which you apply, but you should definitely visit school(s) to which you are accepted and decide whether you can live in that place (location and the program) for 5-7 years.</p>
<p>Where I’m at, if you tell a professor from the start that you are only interested in the MA they will not accept you. If you plan to leave after the MS, as long as you are not interested in a PhD I’d keep that to yourself. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with applying and then realizing two years in that 1) you don’t want a PhD or 2) you want one, but your interests have changed and/or your current place just isn’t for you. It happens. But I think it’s a bit unethical to apply to an MS/PhD program with no intention of continuing past the MS - although I certainly understand why someone would do it.</p>
<p>They will not fund you, yes, but they will accept you in their lab as a fellowship/TA funded MS student. Why wouldn’t they let a good self-funded student work for them towards a MS thesis?</p>
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<p>Again there are actually legal obligations IF you are funded by a prof through grants.</p>
<p>Because in my field master’s are not funded, and no one wants to fund a master’s student. They may pay you as a casual student around $20 an hour or something like that, but they won’t fund you - master’s degrees in both of my interdisciplinary field are largely funded by loans and if you are lucky, partial scholarships. I’m sure this may be different in some natural/physical science and engineering fields, though, especially since I see in those fields sometimes professors hire MAs as research associates.</p>
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<p>If there are, I want you to point me to a link or proof or something. I have never heard of a person who has had to pay back grant monies given to them by the grant or through an RAship. They may stipulate a certain number in the honor code, but AFAIK there is very little to hold you to that.</p>
<p>Better yet, what does a professor have to gain by forcing a half-hearted, reluctant doctoral student to stay on as their RA?</p>
<p>Hasn’t anyone here noted that graduate positions are extremely limited and there’s a large opportunity cost associated with a professor taking a half-hearted applicant over one that would stay the entire duration?</p>
<p>Part of a professor’s role in academia is training future scholars and they can’t accept more students than they can support (not monetarily, but time and effort). Successful graduate students reflect on their advisors and professors want their students to succeed. If I were to spend 2 years trying to mentor a student only to have him/her leave me (when I could have been spending those years training someone else with a career in research), I’d be extremely angry–and I’m guessing that this WILL be expressed to colleagues and other institutions considering how tightly-knit academic disciplines are.</p>