Philosophy

Graduate School
1

<p>A few things..</p>

<p>I'm very interested in a philosophy PHD program. I'm going to be a philosophy major for undergrad, and I enjoy the subject a great deal. My main objectives after undergrad are either pursue grad school in philosophy, attend law school, or apply for jobs in the private sector immediately after graduation. I'm going to be minoring in computer science, so I suppose there's a possibility that if I take a good amount of CS courses, I'd be able to slip into the door for CS related jobs. </p>

<p>But that's getting off track. Essentially, I'm asking two questions. Just how bad are academic job opportunities in philosophy? And secondly, how tedious and difficult is it to attain a phd in philosophy? Will I still be in school for another 5-6 years after my BA? </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>I don’t know the answer to question 2. As for question 1, no matter how many or how little job opportunities are out there, do what you want to do. If you are passionat about Philosophy, then GO FOR IT!</p>

3

<p>Job opportunities in philosophy are worse than you have been led to believe. In the humanities fields overall, 1 in 10 individuals who earn a Phd end up in a tenure track professor position at a R1 university. Half of those who attempt a Phd walk away. The people who walk away are not stupid, they are intelligent enough and motivated enough to enter into a Phd program. Also, the individuals who enter a Phd program in philosophy and successfully earn a Phd, do so in a matter of about a decade, not 5-6 years.</p>

<p>As for how tedious it is? I guess that it is a question that can only be framed in the context of how tedious alternative possibilities would be. With a bachelors in philosophy you would be well qualified to work as a census taker, which would be pretty tedious. Instead, you might be qualified to work as a high teacher, which might be less tedious. What do you want here? Tedium is in the eye of the beholder.</p>

4

<p>Well, I’ve been comparing law school and grad school for philosophy. With law school, you’ll have a lot of loans to pay off, but more of an opportunity to make money straight out of school. I know the prospects for lawyers are bleak currently as opposed to year’s past, but the outlook is still better for JD’s than philosophy PhD’s, surely. However, going to for a philosophy PhD would essentially mean MUCH less money to pay off, given that there are many fellowships and assistantships at one’s disposal. But I think law school wins out, because comparatively, it takes considerably less time to complete. Isn’t three years the “norm” for a full time law student? Meanwhile, for philosophy, I’ve read situations where somebody is in school for a decade. That doesn’t sound pleasant.</p>

<p>I suppose I wouldn’t GENUINELY know until I take some upper-level philosophy classes. If I’m truly passionate about the subject matter, maybe I should pursue grad school. But I think law school is the wiser option, at the moment. As I noted in the original post, I’m also attempting to get my feet wet in computer science. And by doing so, I’ll try to go on co-op with the CS knowledge that I attain in undergrad. Ah, who knows?</p>

5

<p>Law school shouldn’t be used as justification for majoring in philosophy. If you want to become a lawyer, than yes, majoring in philosophy is a great option. But if you have little or no interest in law (and you made no indication of interest) then study philosophy for the sake of learning. If you are interested in CS, pair it with philosophy if are worried about grad school and academic job prospects. </p>

<p>If you are in high school or are an underclassman, continue taking classes in your field(s) of interest. Your goals will likely change before it is time to make the big decisions.</p>

6

<p>I see that you’re a transfer student. I think you need to worry about making a smooth transition to your 4 year university before worrying about the NEXT step! And, of course, getting to know the philosophy faculty. Just simply taking courses isn’t the way to decide <em>if</em> the PhD is for you. Most people attribute to their thesis work as the deciding factor because doing thesis largely tests students to be independent in terms of critical thinking and writing, and spending hours in their fieldwork (in your case, libraries and archives alone as a humanities person). If you hated any aspect of your thesis work, then the PhD isn’t for you.</p>

<p>My friend received a BA in Philosophy from a well regarded LAC. She thought she’d like to do a PhD in philosophy because she loved her thesis work. She took a little time off to get a mental break before going back to graduate school. While working as a DA’s assistant, she discovered that she was passionate about justice, law, and governmental structures, so she thought about doing a combined JD/PhD in Philosophy and law and be a law professor. She still hadn’t taken her GREs and only focused on LSATs by the time the next application cycle started. Then she found an internship in DC and moved there to work for a political think-tank and loved it. I asked her whatever happened to a PhD in philosophy because she was suddenly talking about getting a Masters in Public Policy. She looked at me in the eyes and said, “There are no jobs! The only thing I can do with a PhD in philosophy is teach!” She still reads philosophical works from time to time but it was her jobs that allowed her to use her training as a philosophy major to analyze and interpret all the information she received and write well based on what she read.</p>

<p>Definitely take time off to think about all this much more thoroughly. Your desire to do a PhD in philosophy will prevail after a few years off after trying a few different things.</p>

7

<p>Great answer. I actually told my mom about the prospects of a PhD in philosophy, and she basically said that it’s alright, so long I can have a decent/stable job while pursuing it. </p>

<p>A JD/PhD in philosophy is actually a track I could see myself doing. I feel as though I could do well in law school, and so the law profession has appealed to me. But I could never see myself working in biglaw, more so the nonprofit/government area of law, which I know pays significantly less. Anyway, I’m getting off topic, just trying to get some thoughts together. Your post was very insightful though, thanks.</p>

<p>EDIT- Sorry Student, didn’t see your post. I do have an interest in law, for sure. I could see myself acquiring the knowledge of law and practicing it fairly successfully. However, I’m more interested in philosophy grad school than law school, if push comes to shove. I’m a community college sophomore, at the moment. Interesting to note, by the way, that the school I’m leaning to transfer to is Northeastern. They exclusively have undergrad philosophy, no grad school for it. Does that tend to be an advantage or disadvantage? Would I get more out of the undergrad philosophy program as a result of there being no grad program?</p>

8

<p>You will be able to find a job in academia with a Philosophy PhD. Of course, this does not mean you will be able to find one locally, and you may need to relocate to a University/College with an opening. </p>

<p>A PhD in Philosophy can usually take anywhere from three years to seven years. Of course, this is dependent on the program you are in, and how much work you choose to do within your time there.</p>

9

<p>[The</a> Philosophical Gourmet Report 2009 : Welcome](<a href=“http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/]The”>http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/)</p>

<p>This site is the bible for philosophy PhD programs.</p>

<p>A REALISTIC PERSPECTIVE ON GRADUATE STUDY </p>

<p>Students beginning graduate study in philosophy ought to have a realistic sense of what awaits them. You need to realize that job prospects are uncertain, that jobs at top departments and elite colleges are hard to come by, and that many who start PhD programs do not finish them. The following data may help provide some perspective—though it bears noting that this data is culled from a “top” graduate program; it is likely that data from less prestigious graduate programs is even more sobering. Students should check with particular programs for detailed information on matters like rates of attrition and completion.</p>

<p>The University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, long one of the leading departments in the nation (ranked in the top ten for most of the 1980s, in the top five more recently), makes available extremely detailed and informative information about job placement over the last decade at <a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/placement.html[/url]”>www.lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/placement.html</a>. Of the 48 students who completed the PhD during that time period, 13-or slightly more than one-quarter-have not secured tenure-track appointments. 3 of these 13 first entered the job market since 2000, and so may very well secure such appointments, as might one or two of those from before 2000. At the same time, 11 graduates (or almost one-quarter) secured tenure-track (in some cases now, tenured) appointments at highly ranked departments (in philosophy, law, and political science). Since attrition in philosophy graduate programs is often as high as one-half the entering students (and one-quarter is not atypical even at top programs), it would not be misleading to say that, even at a top graduate program, only one out of ten entering students will end up teaching in strong research-oriented departments, while perhaps as many as two out of ten will be unable to find permanent academic employment. In addition, 4 of the 18 graduates from the above list who have come up for tenure decisions failed to get tenure; three of them secured other tenure-track or tenured academic employment.</p>

<p>For 1995-96, there were 341 PhDs awarded in the United States and Canada, as reported by the Review of Metaphysics. Of these 341, just 17 were offered tenure-track jobs (or the equivalent) in top 50 Ph.D. programs or their foreign equivalents. Of these 17, six were graduates of Princeton, three of Pittsburgh, two of Michigan, and one each of Rutgers, Stanford, Iowa, Minnesota, Notre Dame, and Texas . Of these 341, a mere six were offered jobs at top fifteen programs. Of these six, two each went to Princeton and Michigan, and one each went to Pittsburgh and Rutgers .</p>

<p>A further warning: the vast majority of the Michigan students who had tenure-track offers from top ten departments during the 1990s spent 7-10 years in graduate school. There is a sobering message in this: the kinds of skills needed to land a entry-level post are now the kinds of skills someone thirty years ago would have acquired after three years as a tenure-track assistant professor! The ferocious competition for jobs creates an incentive for students to spend a very long time perfecting their work.</p>