<p>So since I love math, especially applied math, I was really leaning towards getting a physics degree in college (probably with a minor in philosophy since I love the links between the two subjects). However, my classmates have been noting that I may have more luck getting employed post-grad with a math or CS major, and since I like math I should like those majors as well. I actually was looking at going to graduate school, possibly for theoretical physics/neuroscience or physics/CS or just plain old physics, but I know that the academic world is in turmoil right now. Which major has better job prospects?</p>
<p>Your comments from your classmates instantly tells me they have no idea what they are talking about. Physics and math pretty much have the same job prospects (i.e unemployable). Real analysis and abstract algebra is not anymore useful to employers than quantum mechanics and electrodynamics. Unless you plan 100% on becoming a professor and working in academia (meaning you’re dead set on the PhD), I don’t recommend going this route at all. A bachelors degree in math or physics is not very employable.</p>
<p>Stick with CS, it’ll actually give you a decent chance of getting a job upon graduation. The only types who study math and physics are people who don’t care about job prospects and have absolutely no problem working a minimum wage job after graduating. At least that’s the impression I get from most of my classmates. </p>
<p>A fair number of physics graduates end up in computers… but if that is your goal, you might as well major in CS.</p>
<p>Math and physics majors also sometimes end up in finance, but appropriate out-of-major elective choices in economics, finance, and statistics are likely to be helpful if that is your goal.</p>
<p>How hard is it to become a professor in physics and allied fields? I would love to dedicate my life to teaching and research, and I wouldn’t mind middle/high school teaching as a back up in case I don’t get tenure.</p>
<p>Very hard. There are very few openings for professors at universities for physics and most of the other sciences. There are many more graduates then there are openings.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, you should still be able to teach at high / middle schools, but it would be a very modest pay for 9-12 years of schooling. </p>
<p>I’m going to disagree with @Ctesiphon - I’m the wife of a physicist and will share what I’ve seen - first, going to a reputable program for grad school is free - you are awarded a research assistant position that covers your tuition and a stipend for living expenses and it usually takes 5-6 years (ymmv!) to complete the PhD. National labs and universities are hiring post docs - especially women. You can also find a position by applying for a NRC post doc where you get to choose what research interests you and your salary is paid for by the NRC. My husband works at a national lab and often has difficulty finding qualified physicists. I don’t have a lot of knowledge regarding opportunities in academia, but I absolutely believe there are research positions available for PhD physicists. </p>
<p>I was referring to professorships at universities. There is not very many openings for physics PhDs in academia. The situation is very different in industry. You are correct when you say that there are many postdocs available… but there is a general lack of permanent positions for a newly minted physics PhD. Most will take a postdoc, or several before they even have a chance at such positions. I cannot say what the situation is like for national lab work as I am not very knowledgeable there.</p>
<p>Of course the unemployment is low. 9-12 years would include the bachelor’s degree & the PhD work, which would probably be around that amount of time. The vast majority of PhD programs in STEM are funded, so it’s not an issue there. However, if the OP’s intent is to become a professor and a HS teacher as a back-up plan, he should know all of his options before making such a decision</p>
<p>I go to a liberal arts school with a surprisingly robust physics department. Just before the close of the academic year, there was an opening advertised for a junior faculty position. From what I was told by one of my professors, 200 people who are currently postdoctoral fellows applied and only 10 made the interview cut. The interview process was basically sitting down for 6-8 hours in a room with all of the senior physics faculty as they carefully scrutinize your research output and your accomplishments. Once that is done, a consensus must be reached by the faculty on who will be given that junior faculty position. Keep in mind, this is a liberal arts school with a decent at best physics department. Many of the applicants interviewed were exceptional people doing postdocs at MIT, Stanford, and Caltech. Only one of them will actually get the position.</p>
<p>Oh, did I forget to mention postdocs are not permanent? Meaning, once you’ve done 2-3 postdocs and have proven unable to get a junior faculty position (this will happen to 95% of the 200 applicants mentioned above), you will no longer be funded and will no longer be allowed to work in academia anymore. In essence, you will be forced out of academic physics research entirely as this is what happens to the vast majority of physics PhDs. At this point, they are forced to start from the beginning to retrain in a completely different career. Don’t listen to the nonsense of national labs above, they only represent an insignificant fraction of research physics jobs and are much more competitive than faculty positions as there is no obligation in teaching. </p>
<p>So a CS major with lots of math and physics classes would be better in terms of job prospects if academia doesn’t work out? I really want to be a professor but I feel that what is mentioned above is the case with most fields in academia.</p>
<p>Major in CS only if you don’t plan to go to graduate school, a CS/physics or CS/math double major might be a good backup plan if you find out 4 years down the road you don’t want the PhD. With the PhD, you most probably won’t be unemployed, you just won’t be doing physics or anything directly related to it (engineering, applied science, technology, etc). </p>
<p>Each professor at a research university mentors perhaps 20 graduate students to PhD completion over the course of his/her career. This means that each professor will “produce” about 20 times as many PhDs as needed to replace himself/herself. Obviously, most will not be able to find tenure track jobs at research universities. They will have to find academic jobs at LACs and other non-PhD-granting schools, community colleges, and high schools; research jobs other than those in schools (e.g. research labs); and industry jobs (which may be related, such as some types of engineering jobs, or not so related, such as jobs in computers or finance).</p>
<p>As everyone has said, most Ph.D. physicists do not go into academia. However, they do find jobs in industry and at national laboratories doing physics related things. Of my 13 Ph.D. students in physics from Illinois Tech, 5 are university professors (4 with tenure), 2 are scientists at national laboratories, 1 is teaching High School, and the rest are in industry, mostly in R&D positions. There are lots of companies who will hire Ph.D. physicists. It is a long road to get a Ph.D., however and you should only really pursue it if you have a passion for research.</p>
<p>A physics degree can be usefully supplemented with CS courses but it is not the same thing as getting a CS degree and generally CS majors have very few science courses. If you prefer physics, then you should go for it. You job prospects can be improves with a CS minor or an Applied Physics/Engineering Physics degree but I have seen our undergraduates get good jobs even without that. Our undergraduates have gotten jobs in the insurance industry, space industry and in software companies as well as lab techs in R&D facilities (industrial and government). It takes a bit of effort to compete for these more engineering-like positions but it is possible.</p>
<p>From what I have heard and observed from many graduate students and former graduate students, physics is actually very employable, especially if you have programming skills. You can work for companies like intel, IBM, in tech startups, finance, consulting, among other things.
While it is harder if you just have a bachelor, I have known several undergraduates go straight into fields like venture capital, tech startups, programming/data, consulting, and finance.</p>
<p>It is really competitive to get a professorship, which is what I hope to do. The advice I have received is to basically just do what seems right at the time and don’t be afraid to make changes in your plans.</p>