<p>anyone planning for a major in physics?</p>
<p>My daughter considered a possible major in Physics, so I might be able to answer basic questions.</p>
<p>There are two tracks for freshman physics at Swarthmore. Non physics majors take Physics 003 and 004 -- a two semester sequence with a general overview of physics, taught as a lecture class.</p>
<p>Students who are considering a Physics major start out with Physics 006H. This is a seminar course on Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity and Quantuum Mechanics. It meets for three hours at night once a week. Students prepare and present problem sets to the class. Each section is limited to 12 students. In addition to the three-hour class and a weekly lab, the students get together for a study group once a week where they help each other prepare their problem sets and also meet with the professor during his open house hours in his office where they can work through any questions they have on the problem set they will be presenting to the class.</p>
<p>The logic behind starting with this seminar is that a Physics major at Swarthmore consists entirely of seminar-format classes. Basically, all Physics majors are on an Honors track in terms of the seminars and independent research they do, whether they are officially an Honors Program student or not. There aren't really any large lecture style courses for Physics majors. So, the department wants to introduce prospective majors to this style of learning. Plus, the subject matter is more typical of what someone thinking about a career in physics today will encounter. </p>
<p>After, this seminar, Physics majors launch into three semesters of advanced intro courses: a semester on mechanics, a semester on magnetism and electricity, and a semester on Thermodynamics/Quantum Mechanics. These are all taught in small groups, almost exclusively for Physics majors.</p>
<p>My daughter loved the teacher, enjoyed the 006H seminar, and did pretty well -- it's not a known as super difficult course. However, the seminar served its function perfectly and she decided that she really couldn't envision herself as a physics major, spending the rest of her life locked away with what she fairly accurately calls, "those physics boys".</p>
<p>The other issue to consider with a physics major is that, between the large number of required physics courses, the labs, and the required math courses, there are very few slots in the schedule left over for sampling a range of courses in other departments. So you end up being pretty much committed to a heavily math/science oriented schedule. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, you want to be be pretty sure that you love physics. The advanced freshman seminar is the perfect opportunity to find out.</p>
<p>thank you interesteddad</p>
<p>i was wondering how difficult a double major in Economics and Physics would be.
any current swatty taking that?</p>
<p>"The other issue to consider with a physics major is that, between the large number of required physics courses, the labs, and the required math courses, there are very few slots in the schedule left over for sampling a range of courses in other departments."</p>
<p>From that it sounds like it would be very difficult to dual-major with Physcis and any other non math/science course...</p>
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<blockquote> <p>i was wondering how difficult a double major in Economics and Physics would be.</p> </blockquote>
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<p>That would require at least 24 courses out of the 32 courses you would normally take in four years at Swarthmore, maybe more than that.</p>
<p>I'm not sure I see the merit in restricting yourself so severely -- especially as a freshman/sophmore when you really want to try to sample a broader range of departments to make an informed decision about your likes and dislikes.</p>
<p>You can check major and minor requirements in the course catalog.
<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/academics/course_catalog/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.swarthmore.edu/academics/course_catalog/index.html</a></p>
<p>A lot of math classes will probably overlap, and you only need 8 Econ classes for Econ major, so it is probably doable if you really want to do that.</p>
<p>Why on earth do they start with special relativity and quantum mechanics? Do they assume that you are already familiar with mechanics, E & M, differential equations, etc.? It's a rather unusual sequence. Just wondering what's up with that.</p>
<p>Great questions Marlgirl. It took my daughter a while to understand the sequence and the reasoning.</p>
<p>Remember, non-physics majors (i.e. chem majors, engineeering majors, etc.) take a normal 2-semester intro survey course (Physics 003/004) that covers the general stuff (mechanics, waves, electricity, yadda, yadda). This is your standard lecture format intro science course.</p>
<p>The track I'm talking about is a different sequence for students who are thinking about majoring in physics. The assumption is that you have had AP or honors Physics and calculus in high school.</p>
<p>This sequence starts with the 006H freshman seminar. It is taught by one of the more entertaining and well-liked Physics professors. Last fall, he taught three sections, each with about 12 students.</p>
<p>The reasoning behind the course is to give you an opportunity to really find out what majoring in Physics is like to see if you like it AND to give the Physics department an opportunity to see if you are suited to the way physics is taught at Swarthmore. The course is really about introducing a style of learning. Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity is just an interesting vehicle.</p>
<p>a) They start with a seminar format course. This used to be the honors section of this course, but with a shift to freshmen seminars, the lecture version of this course is no longer taught. Virtually every course for physics majors at Swarthmore is a small seminar setting. They want to give prospective students a taste of wrestling with and presenting problem sets to the class on a weekly basis. The class meets one a week, at night, for three hours and consists of students presenting problem sets they have worked on. For the rest of the week, students are working with each other trying to figure the stuff out. This is how the Physics department works at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>b) They want the intro class to be fun. This seminar covers pretty interesting stuff -- space/time, etc. It's more interesting that listening to lectures about the behavior of springs. It's not a super hard course as physics courses go. </p>
<p>c) This is really what modern physics is all about. The classical stuff is important, but Einstein really changed the whole ball of wax.</p>
<p>Here's a website with the syllabus, course details, and problem sets for the course. Scares the dickens out of me, by daughter said it wasn't that bad.</p>
<p>In real life, the seminar served its purpose. My daughter loved it, , really liked the professor, was challenged, but not overwhelmed, got her best "grade" (it's officially pass/fail), and decided that being a Physics major wasn't for her. That was one of her major fork in the road goals for freshman year, so it turned out to be a great course.</p>
<p>For those who continue, the next part of the sequence is three semesters of advanced intro physics: 007 (Mechanics), 008 (Electricity, Magnetism, and Waves), and 014 (Thermodynamics and Quantuum). Because these are pretty much just for physics majors, they are small, intensive, and reportedly hard as nails.</p>
<p>I'm strongly considering majoring in math/physics (at Swat it'd probably be a honors major in math with a minor in physics). Would it be a problem that I've only taken Mechanics and E&M in high school? So no optics, thermodynamics, waves, quantum mechanics, relativity, etc. Also, it seems as if we're expected to know some linear algebra (at least a bunch of stuff with eigenvalues), non-first order differential equations, etc. Would most students in the class learn that in the math class they were taking at the time or are we expected to just know it already or do we cover it in the class itself?</p>
<p>Marlgirl:</p>
<p>My daughter had only had the basic public high school physics course - just your basic classical physics. I don't believe that it had covered any of the quantuum stuff. She had AP Calc, but it had stopped with the AB stuff. She had not done power series.</p>
<p>I don't think it was any big problem for the Physics seminar. From what she told me, the math in the first half of the course (Special Relativity) was no big deal. I think that, as they got into the second half (Quantuum), there was some math that she hadn't done before. Most of the kids in the class were in the same boat and the professor taught them some of the math as part of the seminar. This intro seminar is really not about the math so much, but rather exploring the concept of how the speed of an object lengthen or shortens the perceived time. </p>
<p>Interestingly, calculus was the course that most tested my daughter. Math had come easy for her, including terrific math SAT and SATII scores. At Swarthmore, they divide up the Calc A/B/C into three half semesters and you dive in where you left off in high school. With a 5 on the AP Calc AB test, my D was placed into last third of the sequence: power series. It drove her nuts from start to finish. I don't think power series ever clicked for her conceptually as math always had and the shift from "finding the answer" problem solving to proofs was a difficult transition. My sense is that this is a very widespread experience going from high school to college math. </p>
<p>She's now looking at taking several more math course (including linear algebra), but focused more on sequence that will give her very good statistical analysis skills for social science fields, but not the full immersion four-year high-end math track required for a math or physics major.</p>
<p>Thanks interesteddad, that helps a lot.</p>
<p>anyone here know anything about the engineering major?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/</a></p>
<p>The various links from the swat engineering page provide a great deal of information. The link for "prospective students" is a very good overview. There are links there for "ask a professor" or "ask a student", both of which will provide easy e-mail access to people in the department. I urge "specs" to not be shy in asking questions. Swatties tend to give "no BS" answers about the strengths and weaknesses of what they do. One of Swat's more popular professors gave a talk to the pre-frosh specs last year on, "who SHOULDN'T come to Swarthmore."</p>
<p>The following link is to the online version of the College Course catalog. </p>
<p>Click the department you are interested in on the left side of the page. Each department section starts with basic information about course prereqs for non-majors, majors, honors majors, and minors.</p>
<p>The "conventional wisdom" about Swarthmore's Engineering Department is that it is very good and that it is a very demanding major. The department was formed back in the late 1800s. Like most departments at Swat, the style of learning for majors focuses on very small group seminars that place a lot of responsibility for preparation on the students.</p>
<p>thanks...(this is to make it long enough to post)</p>
<p>The 6H seminar didn't used to exist - my freshman year ('99-'00) the sequence just included Physics 6, which is like 6H but not as hard and served the dual role of being the first course in the major sequence and "physics for poets". This was an artifact of the requirement that departments teach a certain number of "primary distribution courses", which were part of a distribution requirement that was abolished during my tenure at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Physics majors routinely complained that 6 was too easy, so it turned into Physics 6H starting the year after mine, while Physics 6, while open to majors, now serves as a de facto physics for poets.</p>
<p>The department likes to open with relativity and quantum mechanics because they're sexy, counterintuitive, fundamental, and teachable at the freshman level without classical mechanics or E&M. They don't require much in the way of calculus, either, so the introductory mechanics course can be taught at a higher level rather than being geared towards students who are taking calculus simultaneously. Also, by starting with quantum mechanics in the first year, the students have four years of quantum mechanics if they take the optional seminar (115) on quantum optics in their senior year, which is a very strong preparation for graduate study.</p>
<p>Incidentallly, while I believe theoretically physics majors can take 3 and 4 instead of the 6, 7, 8 sequence, the reality is that 3 and 4 are for premeds and engineering majors and physics majors always take the 6/6H, 7, 8 sequence.</p>
<p>Physics 6 is no longer offered. Only the seminar version, Physics 6H. Prof. Boccio taught three sections of it this year, each with 10-12 students, most of whom were at least exploring the possibility of majoring in Physics.</p>
<p>In part, this change may be associated with the new goal of offering freshman seminars in as many departments as possible.</p>
<p>Physics 6H appears to meet one of its primary objectives: to give prospective majors enough of a taste of physics and the way it is taught at Swarthmore to decide if they are interested in continuing to pursue Physics as a major. The students presented the problem sets every week (usually after camping out in Boccio's office for a couple of hours!), so it gave a good sense of the small class environment of the Physics department.</p>
<p>it seems that physics at Swarthmore does not work like this anymore.. does anyone know how does it work now?</p>
<p>I just checked the course catalog.. physics 6 is replaced by physics 5?</p>
<p>Yes. The Physics Department renumbered the courses.</p>
<p>Physics 5 is the new name for the old Physics 6 course on special relativity, time/space, and so forth. It's now a Physics/Astronomy course, still designed as the gateway into the departments for potential majors. Then, you pick up more advanced versions of the two semesters of Intro Physics: Physics 7 and 8.</p>
<p>It appears that Physics 5 is no longer taught as a semimar meeting once a week for three hours.</p>
<p>So i'll take physics 5 and then physics 7 and 8.. but not physics 3 and 4.. hmm.. is there any pre requisite for physics 5.. like AP Physics or high school physics? is physics 5 as tough as the old seminar physics 6?</p>