My S is thinking about which major to choose when he send the applications next year. His stats are not perfect but not bad either. He is a smart boy (just badly disorganized) and is looking at more selective places so any boost in chances is essential. He is undecided between CS and Physics. It looks like most CS/engineering depts are much harder to get into than Physics/Science so declaring Physics as a major gives him a (small) advantage. On the other hand, if he decides to go CS route after a year or so in Physics it may be too hard to get into CS in the same college (I am not at all sure that he will be a straight-A freshman!) and transferring to a way more modest college may not be desirable.
What do you think - which would be a better way to go?
I think that it really depends on the school. It would be beneficial to see and note what the processes are for switching majors at the schools he’s interested in. Some do not admit by major, some have no or few requirements to change majors, and some will not hold your son to whatever he puts on his application at all; they know that students change their majors all the time. It should be a high priority on your son’s list to pick schools like these, because they will easily allow him to explore both majors.
For those schools that are “reaches” and have formidable requirements to switch into CS, your son needs to evaluate how much he wants to attend. Would he be willing to work extremely hard to keep his GPA up? Would he still want to attend that school if he had to settle for his current major? If the answer to those questions is “No,” then it may not be worth it to apply as a Physics major. If the answers are “Yes” and you feel like he needs that boost, then he should do it.
Thank you! That’s pretty much what we were thinking. I was wondering if there are any additional aspects to add to either scenario. It looks like no - he will have to do his research and deal with the results.
He should do the one that he is interested in. Mind that literally thousands of high school students are far more advanced than entering undergraduates at schools (even Cal). Many have released their own app on the app store, worked on websites, web apps, GUI apps, algorithms, etc. before even taking their first SAT/ACT.
CS isn’t the place to go if they’re not really interested in it. People just think that if you major in CS, you’ll get a job at Google, Facebook, Apple, Palantir, Dropbox, etc. Truth is, it probably won’t happen. There are multiple BS in CS graduates that can’t even pass the Fizz Buzz test or know about Big O. It’s sad.
CS jobs are mostly in non-tech firms. Be it agriculture, pharmacy, defense, government, etc. That’s why there are so many jobs.
Tech companies are selective and only the best programmers get those jobs.
He should do what makes him happy.
G’luck.
@StanfordSwag Actually that isn’t true at all schools. Cal sent most of its EECS and CS majors to tech firms. See job reports:
https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.pdf
https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.pdf
For OP:
I think CS major is definitely preferable if the college end game is working in software development at a tech firm. Even if it means going to a slightly worse school (e.g. UCLA instead of Berkeley), he will likely be learning stuff he will actually use at work. If the interests are leaning more toward research/academia, physics could be the better choice. The schools at the very top will likely make it very easy to switch majors between physics and CS, so for those apply for the one that fits best with his profile to increase his chances of getting in.
Actually, his interests are split right now. He became very interested in physics after starting his phys. honours course this year. However, most of the time he is still spending on computers (no app store appearances, though 
). In CS I think he is still searching - trying things out, anything from playing with Linux config and installations to 3D modelling with Blender to writing some Java code. I am not sure he knows what he wants to do after CS - he says he just wants to get some solid academic background and to go from there. He is actually talking about double major - I am not sure that these two majors at the same time are doable for him.
I already told him to reseach the major switching possibilities in the colleges. Probably the best way will be to go CS in safeties and maybe some easier matches and declare physics in the reaches while only applying to reaches where the switch is possible. Something like that…
@puzzled123 Yes… that’s because most students were good programmers before entering EECS already… I know many of them… Going to a school doesn’t get you a job there.
Is he involved in math-sci related activities now? And is he organized and productive in those? What does ‘stats not perfect but not bad’ really mean? I just have a feeling some of this (with the other thread about UC selections) is a bit cart before the horse. He has to be a solid candidate before assessing the finer points of whether UCs have a hurdle because they admit X disadvantaged students or, this thread, whether his shot is easier for CS or physics.
Agree with SSwag a bit. Just taking CS in high school isn’t representative of the range of challenges in college, nor the expectations, when applying. But, that’s not about programming apps or working on web sites. It’s about proving your mettle.
His main activity this year (besides school work which took most of his time) was robotics club. In his school despite its boast point of being STEM-oriented there was very poor CS class selection - Java and APCS only and APCS was barely scratching the surface and left him disappointed (in the class, not in the subject).
He says that he learned more CS stuff doing his own projects and in robotics than in the school classes.
His stats are GPA 3.7(UW)/4.1(W), SAT 2090, SAT2 Math 800, APCS, APCalcBC, AP Physics 1 - all 5s. A few APs (including AP Phys.C) and extra math in CC is planned for next year.
Right now we are just trying to see and feel exactly where he would be a “solid candidate” and where his candidacy will be more uncertain, see what other advantages and disadvantages he has in various places and derive a college list from it.
His current list contains UCs (probably not UCLA or UCB), we also think about UWA Seattle, I think he really liked U of Rochester, there is also a list of OOS private colleges people here suggested and we haven’t finished going through yet.
Two comments.
(1) The notion that most entering CS undergraduates have significant deep knowledge of the underlying subject is specious. They may have some hands-on knowledge of computer languages and computer hardware but rarely do they have the underlying engineering knowledge. Many teenagers are hackers. Not all of them have the depth and smarts to become disciplined engineers. Much of modern CS, media reporting notwithstanding, requires deep CS engineering knowledge. This means math (e.g. advanced algebra, numerical analysis, etc.), structure of computer languages, sophistication in writing secure code, and often domain specific knowledge outside of the “core” design, prototyping, and coding. In practice it also often requires a deep ability to understand user needs and often the ability to develop user interfaces and to communicate with user to meet their needs. Your son is hardly at a disadvantage compared to other entering CS majors.
(2) The notion that physics, as a disipline is “easier” than CS depends on where the student is going with the physics knowledge. If it’s to teach middle school or high school introductory physics then perhaps. If it’s to enter industry or university teaching/research then that notion is very wrong. Look at the courses that are expected. Review the textbooks that are used. It’s a very difficult discipline in which to thrive. And because the demand for talented physicists is relatively small the competition for challenging positions is intense.
to fogcity:
Glad to know I am not the only one thinking along these lines!
(1)I totally agree with you and the absolute majority of entering CS students have very vague if any knowledge of CS (my S included). They may have some practical skills with particular apps and some of them may know some languages. However, the little they know may give them enough interest in the area to choose CS as their major. That’s why they go to college - to learn, right?
(2) There is no way that physics is “easier” than CS! If anything, it’s the other way around (my initial degree was in physics&EE and later I moved on to CS )
What I was talking about is not “harder” vs “easier” major to study but rather which is easier (or harder) to get accepted to the undergrad school.
As for the competition in physics, yes the job market looks very depressing for physics majors in physics, however, from my own and my friends’ experience, I am yet to see a physics graduate who failed to get a good programming job (compared to some CS grads I know).