<p>I took piano lessons when i was a lot younger, but my piano teachers always seemed to move away.. lol.. and overtime i guess i just lost interest. Lately though, I've really regained interest in playing the piano and want to take piano classes in college. The problem is that im not very good. I want to be good but im a senior in high school and dont think i'll be good enough by the time i get into college. Im under the impression that you have to be really good at your instrument if you want to major or minor in it. What are your thoughts on how much someone can progress in one year? Im totally willing to put a lot of time into it... there are a couple of songs im trying to learn right now, so my piano practicing just is basically practicing those two songs. I just play the same measure or couple of measure over and over until i get it down pretty good. Should i do other stuff as well? What can i do to get the better the quickest. Just practice songs? or practice sight reading? or what? Or do u think it would be pointless to pursue college education in piano since im not very good at it? I just want some honest responses.. thank you much!</p>
<p>Seriously? People who want to study performance piano in college have been playing, on average, more than half of their lives. They have devoted countless hours to practice, rehearsals, performances etc. Many of these extremely talented young people will be turned away from studying music, at least at the conservatory level, because there are simply too few spots, even for these talented musicians.</p>
<p>I think it is great to learn a new instrument, and I wish you a world of good luck. But no matter how much you practice in a year, you will simply not be good enough to major in music in college. Enjoy the piano as an avocation. You can still have a wonderful time.</p>
<p>well i didnt know if it was so competitive at every university. Im in no way planning to go to a school that specializes in music or anything. I just figured when i go to college i could also enroll in some piano classes as well. i thought that maybe i could take enough courses to get a minor in it, and if i progressed enough maybe a major.. but i guess thats out of the question. So there is nothing really for a intermediate piano player in college? also if someone could answer my previous questions that would be great.. Thx again</p>
<p>WhiteMint - don't be discouraged. I agree that majoring in music is probably a longshot, but you could certainly pick a college that has a music department where you could get a private lesson every week from a very good piano professor. Things have certainly changed since I attended college (I was a piano major at Humboldt State University, and graduated in 1978). There were a few piano majors who were definitely lacking in skills; but they worked hard and did very well. There was one woman studying with my teacher who had only been playing piano for 4 years or something when she came to Humboldt, yet she graduated with a B.A. in Music and went on to grad school at University of Oregon, piano performance. I think she even ended up teaching there for a bit. All I am saying is: don't set your sights too high, i.e. on a school with very competitive programs. There are thousands, literally, of liberal arts colleges and state schools with good music departments who would love to have someone to teach who works hard and has goals. At Humboldt, there were slots open for non-music majors who were proficient in piano to have private lessons (no charge). They just signed up for the music elective (studio piano) and got credit and a lesson each week. You can do it if you apply to the right school. Good luck!</p>
<p>WhiteMint -- you sound from your post like you're trying to do this without a teacher. You are missing way too much that way. You need to be practicing scales, learning theory, developing flexibility, rhythm, technique. There's no way you can do all that without a teacher.</p>
<p>As far as sightreading, the very best way is to play something new every day. I used to make my kids (my own, and my students) play through a hymnbook. A new one every day. </p>
<p>You probably need to look for schools who will allow you to work on your music without an audition at this point.</p>
<p>I agree with Binx about having a teacher. I think one can do some cursory self-teaching, but you will progress at twice the pace with a good teacher.</p>
<p>i am attempting to play piano. I CANNOT BELIEVE that successful piano players sit there going through "all cows eat grass" and "every good boy does fine", staring at the pages, progressing at a snails pace, for weeks on end, so slow you forget where you are in the sheet music. there has to be another way to do this. anyone have any ideas?</p>
<p>and what is a good teacher? i currently have what i consider to be a good teacher. she is flexible, understanding, gives me plenty of challenges, but wouldn't a suzuki method be more productive than the painstaking, retarded method of reading music note by note? this makes me want to say forget it. </p>
<p>elton john didn't do this. neither did mozart. nor jerry lee lewis.</p>
<p>i would appreciate any help whatsoever. i would really like to perform someday, but this "hazing" is just death to creativity. none of the beatles could read music. ok, i'm not a beatle, or a mozart, or a successful musician, but i'd like to improve without having to commit suicide.</p>
<p>yes, i know i'm a whiner, but if anyone has any real ideas, please send them to me at: <a href="mailto:trinidoggie@yahoo.com">trinidoggie@yahoo.com</a></p>
<p>If you wanted to be a sculptor you wouldn't get a big block of stone and some hammers and chisels and expect to achieve a creative masterpiece. There are plenty of musicians and other artists who had little or no formal training. That does not mean they did not spend hours/day for years perfecting their skills and getting to the point where they could move beyond the basics and express their creativity. Many, if not most, colleges provide opportunities to learn an instrument. A good teacher can make a big difference but, except for a few remarkable prodigies, most of us can expect to put in hundreds of hours of practice to gain a modest level of skill. If that prospect does not sound appealing you may not be cut out to be a musician.</p>
<p>wannaplaygood, unfortunately, there is no shortcut. All good pianists I know have been practicing for years. Even prodigies need practice - they just don't need as much. I once happened to heard an amazing amateur who played the piano for only one or two years: he played wonderfully and almost challenged my view that good performance need years of practice. It was not only later did I find out that he practices regularly about 8 hours a day... </p>
<p>I guess you can bypass reading music in the beginning if you learn by just listening. But eventually you will need to learn to read music. Don't tell me that Mozat doesn't need to read music...</p>
<p>well, these replies are appreciated, but please don't put words into my mouth. i didn't say "Mozat doesn't need to read music". of course he did. I think he was six when he wrote his first opera (?) quite frankly, i think he spent time, lots of it, figuring it out, playing it, and someone else wrote it down for him. </p>
<p>i understand that you have to put in hundreds of hours and hundreds of days to achieve some level of competance. i am willing to put in the time.</p>
<p>what i am saying is there must be a better way than sitting at the keyboard saying things like "Bob Dylan's FACE Got Beaten", and "All Cows Eat Grass" to get that one next note transferred to the keyboard.</p>
<p>we are in days of innovation and growth. why aren't keyboards color-coded?
middle-C thru B red. next seven notes green, next seven blue, with the corresponding notes on paper the same color? yes, there is some music with the note written into the paper note, but this is only for some music. why not all music?</p>
<p>thanks for listening and thanks for your replies. it's time for practice.</p>
<p>regarding mozart, i mean someone else wrote the music down for him only when he was very young.</p>
<p>Well, get a highlighter and mark your music, and put stickers on your keys, if that's what works for you. But I don't believe that would work for most people. Your method tells me that you're having trouble with knowing which octave to play in, which I think is a very unusual problem. More people have trouble with individual notes.</p>
<p>You can also buy a piece of folding cardboard that fits on the back of your keyboard, with the notes marked on it. The danger with too many helps is that it gets you through easier, one-note-at-a-time music, but isn't much help when the music gets harder. </p>
<p>Back when I taught piano, I had to be creative with each student, because they had different learning methods, and different problems. Some learned the notes easily, had trouble with fingering. Others could name the notes instantly but couldn't find them on the keyboard. Others the opposite.</p>
<p>There are probably at least half a dozen major piano method books in most music stores, and a bunch of less-well-known. Look through them and see if you can find one that fits you better. If you are a by-ear player, you will probably always have trouble reading music. Which means you will have to be aware of this and work harder at it. The fact that you are willing to put time into it is in your favor.</p>
<p>Get on the Internet, and do some Google searches on reading music. You'll find different on-line helps, and such. Maybe you will find something that works for you. None of them are magic, but maybe they'll fit your style better.</p>
<p>Obviously Every Good Boy Does Fine is an American concept. Some European schools use solfege (do, re, mi...) I found EGBDF mnemonics useful with my students, although I let them make up their own. Elvis' Guitar Broke Down Friday. Empty Garbage Before Dad Flips.... It is meant to help you until the recognition becomes instantaneous. When you're sitting at home, figuring out a new piece you can't really call your teacher or hunt in your books every time you forget what the note on the 3rd line is.</p>
<p>I suggest getting yourself a book of fairly easy, familiar pieces (eg. Faber & Faber pop, or patriotic, or hymns, or whatever....) and play a different one every day. When you get through the book, start over. I say 'familiar' because you need to be able to hear when you hit a note wrong. I say easy, because your effort should be on learning to read the notes first. As you get better, you can add complicated rhythms, or more notes, or whatever.</p>
<p>I had one student who had a particularly difficult time learning to read music. We started every lesson with a single line of random notes, that he had to play with just one finger. If he played it perfect, we moved on. If not, we did it again. It was a challenge that he really liked, and worked for him. It has to be done with someone who can tell you if you doing it right, though.</p>
<p>The whole concept of written music, and the way it transfers to the brain, fascinates me. A system of eleven lines - with the middle one "invisible" for middle C - to create the grand staff. And the way the C line "slides around" for other clefs. It's really ingenious.</p>
<p>I think it is amazing the system that has been developed, that allows the eye to see instantaneously where 10 fingers should be placed, how hard, and in what rhythm. Instruments that play one note at a time are easier in this regard, of course (Each instrument has it's own unique challenges, though). And at the opposite end of the spectrum are the orchestral scores!</p>
<p>Where I live, it is the norm for younger children to be taught recorder in schools. It is an easy instrument to play, so the focus can be on reading one note at a time, albeit only treble clef. I wish our culture (in the US) still valued music education enough to do the same.</p>
<p>Regarding your examples, I have no idea what kind of study Elton John and Jerry Lee Lewis did - If they read music, or how long it took them to do so, or if they rely primarily on ear. I suspect they both have great ears, and the ability to produce chords and such naturally. What made Mozart great, and respected so many years later, is his prodigy. It didn't hurt that his father was a musician, and he spent much time from the age of 3 on, working on music. But his combination of ear, note-reading, musicality, is rare and possibly unequalled. He didn't have a "method." He had a gift.</p>
<p>I am an excellent sight-reader, in part because I don't have that great of an ear. I can't tell you how many times I sat at the piano, just wishing that the music inside me could just flow out of my fingers spontaneously. It never happened. It has always been work for me. Fortunately, it's work I love.</p>
<p>thank you very much binx. </p>
<p>i do know which octave i am in. i have marked the bass clef notes on the sheet music, (i remember the treble clef ones from my guitar lessons over 30 years ago!) but i find then i look at my notation instead of the notes. i have found a flashcard site on the internet to help me learn my notes. </p>
<p>a musician friend of mine says i have great ears, so maybe reading music is harder for me as a result.</p>
<p>i will look for a book of familiar, easy tunes to practice with.</p>
<p>you took a great deal of time to help me, and you gave examples and methods i will try to integrate into my lessons. your help is very much appreciated.</p>
<p>The truth is, to play and enjoy piano on a personal level (not a professional one) does not necessarily require a prescribed method. I have friends who began playing the piano as adults, and while they will never become really accomplished, they are enjoying themselves, which is what music is all about. Yes, they do have teachers, and have used books of sequentially harder material, but they do not practice hours a day.</p>
<p>I think you find the kind of music you would like to play, at whatever level which you play, and a teacher who supports you. From there, things will unfold, depending on your level of natural musicality and dedication.</p>
<p>wpg - I thought of something else that might help. Has your teacher talked at all about recognizing intervals? Like, one line to the next skips the space note. That's an interval of a "third". A "second" is from a line to the neighboring space. This method of recognizing notes means, for instance, if you are playing the third space treble C, and the note moves to the next space, you don't need to instantly recognize that note as "E" - only that it moves up, skipping one note. It makes it easy to recognize a 1-3-5 chord, for instance (eg. CEG). When you recognize middle C (usually easy enough for everyone), and see a "snowman" on top of it, you see your C major triad right away, without having to figure out E and G.</p>
<p>It is something musicians tend to learn automatically, eventually. But thinking about it might help it come faster.</p>
<p>I am not a "trained" piano teacher - I sort of fell into it reluctantly. I tended to attract the kinds of students Allmusic mentions - who want to play for fun. (In the event I determined that someone had the talent and drive to do more, I usually shuffled them off to someone more intense.) I had a few adults in my studio, too. I definitely believe in playing for the fun of it.</p>
<p>Hey WannaPlayGood, To get some real encouragement and lots of great ideas and feedback, you should join pianoworld.com which is a site totally devoted to all things piano. This forum is really more about college and conservatory issues. You will find every topic under the sun and the members of PW are beginniners through concert artists. Just an added suggestion!</p>
<p>wow. what a great response. </p>
<p>binx, again thanks. my teacher has not mentioned intervals yet, but i'm sure she will eventually get round to it. she is a student herself, seeking an advanced degree, and is very much on top of things.</p>
<p>violinmom thank you as well. i'll take a look at pianoworld.com. more information will help. i see there is an adult beginner's forum there. perfect!</p>
<p>another note. yes, fun is what it should be about, but as i stated, things are not too fun right now. i set high goals. i have a situation where if i become reasonably competant, it is somewhat likely i will be paid to play 3-4 hours a night, maybe 4 nights a week in a restaurant. i may have this opportunity because i live in a resort place where piano players are somewhat scarce, but even so, they do not want to continue to play here in the sticks........there is more career opportunity for them in a city. if i learn enough songs to play the 3-4 hours a night i could be in. my teacher says two hours a day is the minimum to achieve this goal in 2-4 years. does that sound reasonable to you?</p>
<p>I recommend Professor Harold Hill's 'Think' method.</p>
<p>I tried it; didn't work. :)</p>
<p>Wannaplaygood,</p>
<p>I must 2nd Binx's suggestion to be sure that your teacher teaches you to read by intervals. It is not something your teacher should eventually get around to, but something that should be taught from the very earliest stage of music reading. I have never taught any beginning student, whether he plays well by ear or not, to memorize the names of the lines and spaces and try to navigate the notation by chanting Every Good Boy Does Fine. Having to rattle off some such mnemonic for every note on the page would be extremely tedious, as you have discovered. </p>
<p>I usually have beginners start by memorizing middle C for both treble and bass clefs and by memorizing the 2 notes that the clef signs identify - that is, the G above middle C for treble clef (which is also called G clef because it literally shows us where G is written) and the F below middle C for Bass clef (which is also called F clef since it shows us where F is written). The Faber and Faber method books employ this method. After students are comfortable reading middle C, F, and G, I have them fill in the other 6 notes between bass clef F and treble clef G. Most of the music at this stage moves by step, that is from one key to the next, or a- b-c-d. It is important that students recognize when the music steps up, when it steps down, and when it repeats. It is particularly important to train your eye to recognize the "turn aorund" points in the notation. When does the music stop moving up and begin to move downward or vice versa? When students are reasonably comfortable reading changes in direction in music that moves by step, skips are introduced. A skip is defined as jumping over one key, for example, a to c. Students are taught to recognize skips by looking for notes that move line to next line or space to next space. When reading by steps and skips is comfortable, students are introduced to bigger jumps such as 4ths, 5ths, and 6ths. (For curious readers, a 4th means skipping over 2 keys, a 5th skips over 3 keys, etc.) </p>
<p>I believe that reading by intervals is crucial. I teach my beginning students that a good music reader is doing 3 things simultaneously: 1) S/he is looking at what direction the notes are moving - up, down, or repeating. 2) S/he is looking at how far it is from one note to the next, i.e. the interval. 3) S/he is thinking about the letter name of the pitch. The pitch name is by far the least important of the three!</p>
<p>Students learn to read music by reading music. The more new pieces you read, the better your reading becomes. Think about what little kids do in school when they are learning to read English. They read new material every day! I would suggest saying the letter names of the notes in your pieces before playing them each day. If you can stand it, say the names of the notes while you are playing. (This really only works well while you are doing one hand at a time playing. I expect students to have mastered notation before I have them doing much 2 hand playing.)</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>