Piano performance/academic dual degree

College Majors Music Major
1

I’m currently a high school senior, and I’m looking for a university or college (preferably in the Northeast or Midwest) with both a strong music program and a strong academic program. I’ve been playing piano, my main passion in life, for over 11+ years. To try to ensure financial security when I’m older, I’m looking to dual-degree (or double major) in piano performance (BM) and another academic major (perhaps BS or B.Eng), but I’m undecided as of yet.

I believe I’m much more competitive as a piano performance applicant than as an academic student. Although I’m a fairly good student (maybe top 10, top 5% of my graduating class?), my current SAT and prospective ACT scores don’t put me in the same thoroughbred league as a stereotypical top-tier “SAT 1590 and ACT 36” applicant.

Acceptance to an Ivy League is desirable for some. I’m more interested more in how well my school will prepare me for life after graduation, and less interested in the school’s ranking. I don’t want to go to a school where students spend all their time studying and doing coursework, either.

Does anyone know of a school that isn’t considered as cutthroat as the Ivy League, but still has a great music (esp. piano) program, in addition to a moderately competitive and well-regarded academic program? (Or, a good academic school that’s known for generous financial support of music students?)

2

UIUC has both an excellent engineering program and a great music program. U Indiana has Jacobs School of Music and great academics, Oberlin has excellent academics and an excellent music conservatory. For more of a reach overall (Jacob’s School of Music itself is very competitive) you could try NYU or USC.

Other colleges to look at are U Michigan, U Rochester, and U Miami.

I’m not sure how their piano programs in particular measure up, but all have both great academics and great music programs,

3

I don’t have school suggestions, but want to comment on a couple things in your post. First, makes sure that majoring in music and engineering is possible. Engineering majors are very proscribed with specific courses which must be taken in sequence. There usually isn’t a lot of flexibility. Music is known to be a very time intensive major. The two may not mix well. You will need to investigate the schools you are targeting to make sure you can really do what you want to do.

Second comment - you say you don’t want to go to a school where students spend all their time studying. Engineering is hard everywhere and will require a lot of time studying. Combine that with a music major and you will not have much free time no matter where you go.

4

I’m biased because I go to Brown, but the Open Curriculum’s amazing for students like you and I with deep interests in multiple, unrelated fields. :smile: At Brown, students can sample a variety of fields by taking any class S/NC (pass/fail,) whereas at a lot of other schools the fear of a bad grade would stop you. The Open Curriculum’s virtually no requirements (except for 2 writing designated courses, which are in multiple fields,) also makes it extremely easy to double concentrate (major) between two unrelated fields.

Take a look at Brown’s concentrations here: https://bulletin.brown.edu/the-college/concentrations/

For students requiring financial aid, Brown has an extremely strong financial aid program that meets your full demonstrated need w/o loans (the Brown Promise.) Take a look at Brown’s financial aid website: financialaid.brown.edu .

For low-income applicants, I highly recommend students look into the Questbridge College Match program and Posse Scholars, as these programs make attending a school with a high sticker price like Brown extremely affordable.

Other schools that have a strong music and traditional undergraduate program that I know of are Vanderbilt (Blair School of Music) and Johns Hopkins (Peabody Conservatory.) Keep in mind that both schools don’t have grade inflation, and if you’re worried about grades (engineering is hard everywhere though,) a school like Brown (which has no +/- grades) with more student-friendly grading policies might be more beneficial.

I do highly recommend applying ED to a school if ALL of the following are true once you’ve done more research:

  1. You LOVE your school and would 110% attend if admitted.
  2. You're extremely confident that you can present a well thought out and crafted application by the ED deadline, which is usually November 1st.
  3. You and your family can afford the school if admitted (run the school's financial aid calculators.)

Hope that helps! Good luck with admissions!

5

@me29034 I appreciate the advice. I really don’t know too much about Engineering as a major, so that was helpful.

To clarify: when I say I don’t want to go to a school where students spend all their time studying, I mean that I want to go to a school where a healthy cultivation of life outside of your classes is actively encouraged, rather than just an afterthought.

6

It would be helpful if you can share your unweighted GPA and any standardized test scores that you have for people to give meaningful advice. If you are not looking for engineering, Oberlin and Lawrence ( the one in Wisconsin) both have conservatories and 5 year BS/BM programs. Make sure that you understand any financial aid policies about 5 year programs.

7

It’s hard to calibrate what to recommend without seeing your stats. When you say you’re looking for “generous financial support,” do you mean merit $ based on musical talent, or need-based aid? Agree that combining a serious music performance degree with engineering is difficult, especially if you’re looking for “life balance” as your post implies. Blending with math or physics may be more manageable.

Check out St. Olaf in Minnesota and Lawrence U. in Wisconsin. Neither has engineering, but both have conservatory-level music performance and strong STEM (Lawrence is particularly known for physics and St. Olaf for math/CS).

8

I fully expected to continue studying piano as an engineering major. It took me about two weeks of classes to realize that it wasn’t practical.

Piano performance and engineering are both very demanding majors. I can’t imagine trying do study both.

9

I’ll reconsider the prospects of an engineering major in my dual-degree plan. My dad suggested it, because he spent about 40 years of his life being an engineer/plumber, but I’m really just interested in pursuing something non-music related.
(*Note: I’m an all-rounder when it comes to academics, so I haven’t really been able to decide on a secondary interest besides music that I want to pursue in college.)

Judging by your replies, @Eeyore123 and @aquapt , I probably should’ve put them in the original post, but here’s my stats:

  • current HS GPA: 4.024 (where the highest possible GPA = 4.3)
  • SAT score: 1410 (with zero preparation and zero pre-tests)
  • pre-ACT: 32 (out of 35)
  • The ACT test format seems to suit me much better than the SAT, so I’m studying to take the ACT in early October 2020. I anticipate I’ll score in the range of 31-35.

@aquapt , by “generous financial support”, I mean merit-based financial aid. I’m trying to minimize the debt I anticipate having post-undergrad because I don’t want to be a financial burden to my parents, who don’t really have much saved up for me.

10

@MaineLonghorn , can I ask how you originally planned to study piano as an engineering major (for example, as a minor, a major, in a dual-degree program, or as an extracurricular) ?
Also, from your two-week experience, what was(were) the dealbreaker(s) for you?

11

It would have just been as an EC. I hoped to take lessons from a faculty member (I knew some of them from piano workshops I attended at UT during high school).

The homework was intense from day one. High school had been a breeze for me, so the level of difficulty in my college classes was a surprise. I was in the honors program, and wow, were the other students smart! I knew it was going to take all my concentration to do well.

Also, the music building was a heck of a long way from my dorm, way on the other side of the large campus. Just getting to and from the practice rooms would have taken a lot of time.

12

FWIW I studied piano as an civil engineering major. I did not major/minor. I simply took lessons as an elective each semester. My goal was just to continue studying/learning music. I don’t remember it being difficult doing both, but I was more advanced than my professor’s average piano student, as I competed regionally/nationally growing up. (My sister had the real talent. I just had the work ethic.) My professor was understanding (her H was an aerospace professor) and I guess she just took whatever effort I had to give. My high school schedule was also so busy, it was insane. College life was much easier from a time management standpoint.

( Self brag/nostalgia) I did manage to win the state collegiate concerto competition my junior year and played with a symphony. It’s where my parents and H’s parents met for the first time. :smile:

I am not sure what schools to suggest, as I don’t follow good music school programs and I graduated almost 30 years ago. My teachers growing up had a better pedigree, however, I learned a ton from my collegiate professor. She was a great performer, and I am a visual learner. Just watching her play certain passages would help me out a great deal. I am glad I had the opportunity to study under her.

13

Not music but D18 is doing a dual ballet BFA and BSc Hons at Utah (note they also have a BMus course, see https://advising.utah.edu/majors/quick-look/music-bmus.php ). The BFA is somewhat similar to the BMus, requiring about 90 semester credits for the major.

She is managing to fit in a second major with about 50-60 credit hours (Env Studies in her case but math would have worked too, though no chance of doing the 80+ credits and labs needed for an engineering major). She’ll end up with about 160 semester credits (compared to the standard 120) taking account of the extra required honors courses, in 4 years (plus a half course load the first summer). That means 20-22 credits most semesters which is busy but quite doable (she has a 3.9 GPA and 89 credits after two years, excluding APs), at least for a strong student (4.0UW/35 ACT/8 5s in APs in HS).

Utah seems to make this easier than any other college I’m aware of, since they have plenty of online courses which allow timing conflicts to be mitigated and offer a fairly comprehensive set of lower level courses in the summer, equivalent to a full semester, because so many OOS students stay to gain residency the first summer. Merit aid is good too, though it’s academic based, we didn’t see anything based on talent. Hope that helps.

14

If you are considering a BM at a program that requires an audition, what schools has your teacher recommended? Have you looked at pre-screen/audition requirements? Can you play all required at a high level? There are many school names that could be suggested but without guidance from a teacher or knowledge of requirements, you may not be looking at the right schools. If you looking at a BA with no audition that’s fine … but again would change any list. Have you sought advice yet from your private teacher as most performance majors would already be working on the required pieces for auditions. If you have what do they suggest?

15

I posted this on another thread (and would also ask you to think about your need for a practical “backup.” It really is okay to major in music only, whether for BM or BA!):

First, have you read the Double Degree Dilemma posted closer to the top of this forum? It might be helpful.

What kind of involvement in music do you want? Mainly lessons and performance, or do also want theory, music history, and music technology etc?

Computer science and music are both intensive and sequential curricula so double major would be tough. I think you are wise to either do double degree, OR major in computer science at a school where there are lessons and performance up to your level, as extracurriculars (and many schools will give credit for lessons and certain performances).

If you are applying for a BA or BS program, be aware that submitting a music supplement with recording, music resume, and letters of recommendation from music teachers or directors can sometimes help your application.

There are many schools with double degree programs for music. If you are sure you want both BS and BM, rather than the extracurricular route:

Harvard/NEC (MM), Tufts/NEC (BM), Bard (conservatory requires double degree), Oberlin (look at their Music Studies program as well), Ithaca, Hartt / U. of Hartford, Bienen /Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, Michigan, many state universities (check out SUNYs), Mason Gross/Rutgers, Eastman/Rochester (selective music), Johns Hopkins/Peabody (probably not as geared to double degree but possible) and many others.

Some music schools are more supportive of double degrees than others, but I am mentioning a few so you can investigate. Honestly there are a lot more…

16

I would caution that Brown is very selective and also more expensive than some of the other Ivies.

I always like to suggest Colleges that Change Lives for students who don’t want top schools but instead a great fit and experience. Some of them, like College of Wooster, are good for music.

You really need to decide if it is music you want. You do not have a strong drive for another subject. You can go for a BA or BS in music. (Actually Oberlin offers both and has recently enhanced their BA).

Music majors are well-respected and can work in all kinds of fields, and also have access to grad and professional schools like law, medicine, nursing, business etc.

Read the Double Degree Dilemma essay and decide which student most resembles you :slight_smile:

17

@bridgenail

I’ll answer your questions in order.

  1. My teacher has recommended Oberlin and Northwestern due to their well-established DD programs as well as strong piano depts. (Plus, she knows a lot of the faculty, due to being well-connected in the piano pedagogy community, a student of both IU and Menahem Pressler.) She’s also very supportive of my reach school, Johns Hopkins, whose Peabody Institute has a very strong piano dept.
  2. I have looked at pre-screening/audition requirements for all 3 of these and have a comprehensive 45-minute program that I believe can satisfy any combination of audition repertoire requirements.
  3. Yes, I can play at a very high level for my age.
  4. I’ve been working on my repertoire for the past few months: a Bach P&F, a complete classical sonata, a Chopin ballade, an Impressionistic etude, and a 20th cent. nocturne. Since I’ll be reusing already polished pieces from past competitions and I have great stamina, I believe the program length won’t be a significant issue.
18

@compmom
I read the essay, and now I’m not so sure if double major is right for me.
I think I’m maybe more of the “Howard” type of student David Lane writes about, but I’m still scared of not having financial stability post-grad. To me, financial stability is a high priority, and the job market for music majors isn’t exactly attractive in that sense, according to almost every music teacher that I’ve ever had.

You mentioned that music majors have access to grad and professional schools. Could you elaborate more on that? (Wouldn’t a music major be lacking in much of the prerequisite knowledge useful to a grad degree that a B.A./S. would provide?)

19

I’m glad that the essay was helpful and glad you were able to identify with one example, Howard, who had the same financial concerns as you :slight_smile:

It is true that college is increasingly viewed as career-preparation. Tuitions are high and many students have loans. Parents are concerned with “return on investment.” It is also true that more vocationally-oriented majors can result in short term certainty about jobs. However, long term, I think pursuing what you genuinely love can lead to success, and that includes music.

And of course, if you want to be a performer, a BM IS career preparation. But that is not the only path available after graduation.

I am not sure whether you want a BA or BM but let’s assume, since you identify with Howard, that you want a BM with the immersion in music that you would like (ideally). A BM is 2/3-3/4 courses in music, and a BA is the reverse, with 1/4-1/3 courses in music.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that I once read music majors, as a group, had the highest admit rate to medical school. This may not be true now, I have no idea, but 5-10 years ago it was a reliable statistic. There are ways to take science classes during a BM program, but instead I think the best route would be a post-baccalaureate program. Example: https://www.goucher.edu/learn/graduate-programs/post-baccalaureate-premed-program/

You would definitely have access to business, law and nursing, and academic grad school as well.

I know a BM grad who works for Sesame Street, another who did a masters in Medieval Studies in the UK, one who runs a festival, another who created an outreach program for underserved communities, one who works at a start-up for teleconferencing (after some post grad work), several who teach, work for non-profits, many who went on the master’s or doctoral levels and work in a university setting, the list goes on.

Most conservatories and schools of music have courses in career development. They also have outreach. You can intern in areas within music or outside of music. For instance, I know a student who interned with an orchestra and picked up a lot of technical skills while helping with recording composers’ work in the studio, as well as skills in building websites, working with donors, and writing newsletters. All of these are transferable.

There are BM grads who make a living playing music (and these days orchestral is not the only way to go) and there are BM grads who have day jobs and there are BM grads who go on to other fields but continue to play the rest of their lives. We have a local ensemble composed entirely of MD’s.

The point is that a BM is a bachelor’s like any other. And most educated people know how rigorous it is, the kind of commitment and work ethic it takes, and so the degree is well-respected.

It is a leap of faith for sure, but my own view is that undergrad should be for what you love. I realize this can be tough for parents, with financial worries. But it really can work out. One important point, also in my view, is that it is absolutely essential to avoid onerous debt.

I hope others chime in, and hope this is helpful.

20

Here is one example of a med school’s preference in applicants:

UC Davis’ admissions office, Dr. Fancher said, doesn’t give more weight to one major or another as long as a student has completed the required prerequisites. “We look for mastery in an area that a student is passionate about,” Dr. Fancher said. “That could be in the study of art or history or science, in participation in college athletics or music or dance, or in making an impact in their community.”

This attitude is held at other types of post grad schools and jobs as well. Of course, GRE, LSAT, MCAT are all important factors as well in admission.

For jobs after getting a BM, it might help you to talk with a conservatory or school of music and ask them what grads end up doing. I think it would be reassuring.