<p>I teach at a large public university. As I drive my Ford into the parking ramp every day, I am surrounded by students in BMW’s, Mercedes, a huge number of Audis, and (I think) one Maserati. I would guess that the social group your daughter feels comfortable in can be found at a large number of public universities. It is also illuminating for a student from a wealthy suburb to meet and come to know students from less fortunate circumstances–and beneficial for quite a few future careers for the student to have a better understanding of the socioeconomic range in the US.</p>
<p>I think that many students are unaware of the limits on the loans that students can take out personally (not much, and not enough for the difference between an in-state public and most private colleges).</p>
<p>It is hard for students to comprehend that what seems like a large income does not go that far, after housing, transportation, insurance, utilities, food, and clothing are accounted for. In fact, it’s often hard for me to comprehend why I don’t have a wheelbarrow full of money left at the end of each month!</p>
<p>A couple of practical suggestions: Visiting the public universities (as suggested by others) is a good idea. Quite a few of them, my own included, have significantly improved the quality of the dorms, food services, and recreational facilities since I was a student. Finding some columns in financial magazines about prudent practices in paying for college is a good idea–plus the New York Times, and perhaps sources like the Huffington Post. There are plenty of threads on this web site about issues of paying for college, and how much debt is reasonable. Maybe the older sibling could help with explaining realistic finances? </p>
<p>Just by saying “we can pay X dollars per year, if you end up somewhere with a higher cost, you must take out loans for the rest” is being supportive.</p>
<p>My friend’s father was so anti-loan that he forbade his daughter to go to her top choice, and said that he would pay full-ride at the state school, full-ride at another slightly more costly state school, or NOTHING towards the private school she was accepted at.</p>
<p>If the OP is willing to pay the maximum the OP is willing to pay, the daughter is lucky and needs to figure out how to get the rest if she needs it. No other choice.</p>
<p>As for ungrateful etc. - the daughter forgets that her parents have no obligation to pay anything, regardless of what colleges believe. Once the OP’s daughter is 18, absolutely no legal responsibility to pay anything for your child.</p>
<p>I would tell your child your budget constraints for college. Run the calculators for the schools they are interested in and show it to your child. Start taking college tours so they can determine what they like and dislike and then with that information and your budget find schools that are possible fits. If any of these colleges offer merit aid show them the criteria that needs to be met. To get your child more grounded on finances, push him/her to get a job where they are responsible for buying their own things such as clothes, meals out with friends and gas. They will stop asking for this and that and learn to appreciate their hard earned money as well as yours.</p>
<p>A junior in high school who whines about not getting to go to the “country club school”, once finances have been discussed, should be treated in the same way as a whining two year old who throws a tantrum. “I’m sorry you feel that way.” Period. End of sentence. No further discussion of finances, no further justification for why you can or cannot pay whatever amount. Just, “We’ve talked about this and this is what the budget is. I’m sorry if you don’t like it, but that’s what it is and that’s final. You can make yourself miserable if you want, but you cannot make us miserable.” Then leave the room, go back to your paper or TV or whatever, and refuse to engage.</p>
<p>Once she sees that she cannot push your buttons, and that whining and holding her breath until she turns blue won’t work, my guess is that she’ll figure out how to be satisfied. </p>
<p>Now, if she comes back with a constructive suggestion for how she might be able to afford more than you are willing to commit, then continue the conversation. But not if it’s just rehashing the same ground over and over again.</p>
<p>I agree with Blossom in post #21. Help your daughter own the process. Because my D had excellent grades and test scores she initially felt she deserved to go to an elite school. Most of the schools she was initially interested in award aid for need only and we could not afford the high price tag and would not qualify for FA. We gave her a concrete number of what we could afford to pay, said she could apply to any school and if it was in our price range she could go. We encouraged her to find some schools that were affordable either because they had a lower overall price tag or she would qualify for merit scholarships and then stepped back and let her do the research. We helped her but let her drive the process. She found 3 schools that were matches/safeties for admission and cost and applied to 2 elite private schools. Ultimately she fell in love with an LAC in the midwest that had a combination of a slightly lower price tag and merit scholarships and committed before she even heard back from the 2 elite schools. She started college this fall and loves it, so happy and thriving! Of all my D’s friends who started college this fall the ones that seem to be happiest are the ones who carved their own paths and made their own choices (within the parameters set by their parents.) Also, as someone else noted, don’t discount how much your child may mature over this next year and half. Good luck!</p>
<p>Lots of very good advice here. Perhaps I can add a personal perspective. I felt the way your daughter feels when I was in HS. My parents lived an upper class lifestyle with fancy cars, travel, etc. It never crossed my mind that finances would be an issue for college. I was, frankly, immature, naive and clueless. And that’s OK for a 17 year old. But the immature, naive and clueless among us should not be given the power to make major financial decisions. You are doing the right thing by telling your daughter NOW what the budget is. Now let her rail and whine and rage against that until she gets tired of it & meanwhile go about your business. Perhaps you can show her some of the long range effects on your finances if you over-reach on undergrad education. I think she will come around, if not before college, then during or after when she has a good experience & graduates without debt. But buckle up, it may be a rough ride for a bit.</p>
<p>You said she’s a junior right? It’s still early days. Lots of kids struggle with the budget given to them at first for a variety of reasons. My own kid freaked out because our budget pretty much negated all the less competitive private schools on her initial list… even with their top merit offers. What she was really freaking out over was that she was didn’t think she could get into the highly competitive schools with better financial packages. She was totally opposed to our in-state publics (which were in our budget) and her reasoning was a mix of truths and irrationality. She never whined about the money but I know it weighed heavy on her. It took her until about March of her senior year to make peace with her choices and fortunately for her, one of her little private dream schools came through in April with enough money to make it a comfortable choice for us. Sometimes it’s less about the money and more about fear and anger at themselves. </p>
<p>I suppose the OP’s kid could be just shallow and spoiled. If that is the true case then sticking to the budget is an important life lesson. I just wanted to throw out that it’s early and there can be a lot of emotions running all at once and initial reactions can be rather loaded.</p>
<p>But she needs to know that the cost limit is, and she needs to include safeties that are within that limit. Otherwise, she may get financially shut out (i.e. acceptances, but none are affordable).</p>
<p>Perhaps if choice of college is the first time the kid has to make a significant decision with cost as a factor, it may not be surprising that s/he has difficulty with it.</p>
<p>I say that the OP should ride this out a little longer, until she and her child have a set of statistics to work with. If the junior grades are okay, and the test scores are solid, there might be more room for negotiation than she thinks. There are many small, private, liberal arts colleges with a “country club” vibe that will offer merit aid to upper-middle-class students whose parents can shoulder a portion of the bill. This practice is controversial, because it works at the expense of poorer students, of course. These might not be the elite colleges that the student has his or her heart set on, either. They are likely to be colleges that most of your kith and kin have never heard of. Many are excellent, nevertheless, with strong regional reputations. Their price-tags might come in close to your state’s public colleges. Encourage your kid to apply to some reaches. If he or she gets into any, then you can review the financial picture. My younger son made his own decision to attend a less-expensive option. If your child sees that the more expensive college(s) will force him or her to focus on earning money during breaks and free time, and that the family coffers will be exhausted, the kid might well be mature enough to decide in favor of the more affordable option next year. I think it’s too soon for parents (much less strangers on the Internet) to restrict the kid’s choices. I doubt that there are any worse underachievers out there than my elder son. His college choices boiled down to an auditioned BFA theater school (the only program that accepted him) and our well-respected state flagship college. My husband and I were leaning heavily in favor of the latter, until we realized that - in his customary manner - he had neglected to notice that the arts school had also offered him a $13k talent scholarship. Sometimes you should let the process play out. </p>
<p>You say that you’ll pay for a state school (how much is that?). That is very reasonable for any family that isn’t wealthy.</p>
<p>So, if the COA for the state school is $30k, then tell her $30k is what you’ll pay (which probably 5-10 times more than the average parent pays). Tell her that she is welcome to attend any school she wants if she can find a reasonable way to pay, but you will not be co-signing loans. Those reasonable ways can be working/saving over the summer, working/saving during the school year, buying used books, etc. If some of the desired schools give merit scholarships for certain stats, show her the offerings (even if she is NO WHERE near qualifying). </p>
<p>I would also explain to her that some of the kids at school that are acting like money is no object will find out it is. Yes, even the spoiled ones. There are all kinds of things than can pop-up during the next 18 months…job loss, divorce, severe illness, whatever. Right now it’s all “lunch table talk”, with each student trying to impress the others. </p>
<p>OP- I don’t really have anything to add except my sympathies. Just from dealing with my own kids at that age, nothing you say is probably going to make much of a difference. Sounds like you are doing a great job letting your S/D know what the financial situation is early enough that he will have time to adjust -eventually. I agree with others who said that there is a lot of talk on high school campuses about where “everyone is going to college”, but so much of it is just talk.
I would also suggest that you should get numbers from the guidance office showing where past classes have ended up attending college. There are usually a lot more at community college and state school attendees than anyone wants to admit to. If that doesn’t help, just stand firm with your budget and try to stay matter-of-fact and keep emotions out of it as much as you can (I know it can be SO hard when they are acting self-centered and showing a total lack of appreciation!!!) Just continue to be straight forward and don’t apologize in any way for not being able to do more. If it continues, you might discuss the fact that the higher priced schools must not have been all that important if said child did not work harder at school to assure merit aid. Someone else above said this, but I second- most kids mature a huge amount between jr. and sr. year.Hopefully it will get easier!</p>
<p>I don’t think getting numbers from the guidance counselor about where kids from other classes have wound up is going to be helpful. From her point of view, she will find that irrelevant. It really kind of is. What’s relevant is what you can afford and are willing to pay. I agree with prior posts about not trying to get her to change her feelings. I think you don’t want her to be “unhappy” with you. Who cares if she is unhappy with you? The posts that talk about stating the facts and then disengaging are spot on as are they ones about letting her take ownership of reality. The latter may take some time, but it will be time well-spent. If she wants something badly enough, maybe she will kick her efforts up a notch to make it affordable via some merit money. I agree with @mom2collegekids that a lot of it is lunch table talk. That will likely get worse before it gets better. She will probably toss out all kinds of names of schools that she hears her friends talk about. Just smile and nod and say, “That sounds great! Hope you can make it work within the budget.” Lather, rinse, repeat. </p>
<p><<<<
Just from dealing with my own kids at that age, nothing you say is probably going to make much of a difference.
<<<</p>
<p>Well, expect a tantrum and some moaning and groaning for a short-time. Once she sees that you’re a united front that X dollars is the limit, and she will have to figure out how to cover costs higher than that, she’ll come around. If she doesn’t, then you may have a more serious issue.</p>
<p>OP, I agree that you are on the right track managing her expectations now. She may never be happy with the financial limits you put on her, but she will have to get used to them. </p>
<p>If you think she has become overly entitled, I would also encourage her to start working for what she wants. Can she get a job this summer? Second semester senior year is a popular time for kids to get jobs here. They can build up a nest egg for college recreational spending. </p>
<p>If I had my druthers, my college aged kids would have to work for all spending money above a certain amount. We would pay for tuition, room, and board, but they would have to pay for the fun stuff. H is more generous than I am. I am fortunate in that the kids want to work and do have little campus jobs. </p>
<p>I would pay attention to posts like turtle time regarding the possibility of a small private, though I am a fan of our state school myself and obviously some publics should be in the mix. But we did find some privates to be cheaper in the end. That is what I meant about waiting to see what was offered. I appreciate the clarification and applications should be carefully chosen, but there are often surprised in terms of ultimate cost. And sitting around the lunch table talking about various options can feel better than telling peers that there is only one choice.</p>
<p>As far as the college itself goes, I would tell Junior what you are willing to pay for year. I would ask what they want in a college (size, distance away, location, etc) and help find colleges that would fit that.</p>
<p>For spending money what we did was hand over the kid’s childhood savings account that had birthday/baptism/etc money and said “Here you go. We pay for tuition/room/board/books/travel home. You pay for anything else. We expect you to get a summer job to replenish your account.” My DD did and made a budget for herself.</p>
<p>The need for short term money versus long term self-sufficiency is a conflict we are still trying to resolve. If at all possible, I think it can be good to encourage internships or other opportunities that may not pay, in the interest of longer term economic independence. Some of the kids who have to work during college miss out on opportunities that could mean more income later on. It’s not fair, and when a family truly needs the kid to work, unavoidable, but I do think it is true that not working (for pay, or as much pay) can sometimes be beneficial in the long run. Unfortunately, that means parents paying for everything during school, which is not possible for many. </p>
<p>We told our two S’s early on (middle school) that we could pay for any instate public univ. of their choice. We could not afford privates and did not want our S’s to be burdened with debt upon graduation. If they had scholarship $$ to make up the difference…then fine. Otherwise, choose a state school. Both of them happily went off to state schools and loved it. Both were employed right after graduation.</p>
<p>Most teenagers have no concept of the burden of debt. So logic is wasted on them. It’s up to the parents to stand firm if that has been the plan all along.</p>
<p>Haven’t read the whole thread so apologies for redundancy. OP- have you told your dau what your max amount you are willing to pay out of pocket is? As long as she understands that that is all you will pay, then whatever criteria she chooses to select a school she feels is a good fit is hers. Students will turn their noses up at schools for a variety of silly-sounding reasons. Whatever her school selection choices are, as long as they are in the budget, what does the rest really matter?</p>