Placement into Econ PhD Programs

Although this is premature, I was admitted into the College with the intention to major in economics, with the eventual goal of being accepted into an elite PhD program for economics (with my dream Chicago’s own program). Through some cursory research, I have learned that Econ PhD candidates must be extremely well versed in math and computer science. This gave me some questions:

How does UChicago perform in placing its econ majors into top PhD programs (specifically UChicago itself)?

With the amount of math classes I should take to be a competitive PhD applicant, does it make sense to double major in math and econ?

There’s discussion of this issue in the Economics Concentration portion of the catalog, which you can access online. I haven’t looked at it recently, but traditionally they have recommended that people who want to pursue PhDs in Economics concentrate in in a BS program called Math with Specialization in Economics rather than Economics per se. (The applied math program has now been vastly expanded, however, and I’m not certain where Math w/Specialization now resides. You may have somewhat similar choices in Math or Applied Math.)

That said, Math and Econ is one of the easiest double majors to pull off, at least at the BA level, since there’s so much overlap and so much interrelationship. What’s important for graduate school is not necessarily the labels, though, as the quality and breadth of the work.

You should probably be aware, also, that PhD programs are not like professional schools in their admissions of same-university candidates. Professional schools (law, medicine, business, etc.) admit a lot of students, and tend to look on applicants from their own colleges as a favored group. Academic departments probably disfavor their own majors somewhat. If someone is an absolute superstar, they won’t turn him or her away just because they already know the applicant, but they don’t necessarily enjoy picking and choosing among their own students, or deciding which faculty member will get his pet in and which won’t. (Economics and Biology may be a little different, because they tend to have larger PhD cohorts than most other departments.)

Math spec econ is essentially the requirements for a double major in math and econ consolidated into one list since so many people were doubling.

Getting into UChicago econ’s PhD program is really, really, really hard. They get 1.5x the number of applicants for half the cohort size as Harvard. They admit about 2 people from UChicago a year (I have no source, that’s pure hearsay). Here’s what you gotta do to be a strong candidate for quant-heavy Econ PhD programs:

-Take Honors Calc your first year. This is not strictly necessary but will make the rest of your time at college a lot easier.
-Take Honors Econ. Do well.
-Take Real Analysis. Do well. Don’t freak out if you lack the math ability to do well in Honors, or even Accelerated: doing well is more important, and it’s okay to take non-accelerated 203.
-Take a bunch of CS classes and learn to program.
-Write an Honors Thesis for Econ.

-(Alternatively? Realistically you’ll want to this in addition to the thesis if you do it at all) Find a research job on campus. Impress your supervising professor.
-Generally do well in your classes - look, all As is an unrealistic expectation, but try not to get below a B in more than a handful of classes. Aim for As, don’t beat yourself up over Bs.

Will you get into UChicago Econ? Prob not. But you will get in somewhere, and you’ll probably get in somewhere good: UChicago Econ and UChicago Math are giants in their respective fields and your degree will impress people, doubly so if you come well recommended. Bizarrely, econ is less prestige-heavy than other fields wrt jobs (even in academia) at the doctorate level: look outside the top 20 and you’ll be showered with offers of extra funding and tons of attention which is highly underrated in impact of outcomes.

I repeat my claim that UChicago is one of the best places to be for an aspiring PhD, in any field. The quality of teaching is much higher than most research universities without compromising on research opportunities. There are so many people also going for PhDs that it’s very easy to stay on track and have other people to commiserate with: you are never going at it alone. I (and many other people) have met with the heads of our respective departments to talk about exactly what’s expected for us to get into a PhD program and what kind of programs we should be aiming for - you are never an afterthought. If a thesis is expected for admission, the department will walk you right through the entire process.

Good luck!

^^ Score over a 167 on the Math GRE. That’s 98th percentile - bare min. Good letters are crucial. Don’t worry so much about the honors thesis unless it helps you get good letters.

Addendum: the rest of the advice is very good.

You can see the jobs new PhDs get on econ department websites. Chicago is notable because the number of students with outcomes on the placement list tends to be much smaller than the number of students entering the program 4, 5, or 6 years earlier. Do they eat their young?

You can see the jobs new PhDs get on econ department websites. Chicago is notable because the number of students with outcomes on the placement list tends to be much smaller than the number of students entering the program 4, 5, or 6 years earlier. Do they eat their young? Do they hide the poorer placements?

These previous lists seem all right number-wise:

https://economics.uchicago.edu/sites/economics.uchicago.edu/files/PhD%20Placement%20History.5.pdf

The current crop of 22 or so will probably have their results posted at end of academic year(?)

@JHS @HydeSnark
Thank you for the advice. The PhD route is the most likely option, but I would still like the option of an MBA or an industry job if my PhD opportunities are weak. Would pursuing a PhD candidate path in undergrad (research internships, heavier focus on math and computer science) deflate my GPA and weaken my practical experience, making me less competitive for MBA and job applications?

I am wary of going down a path that will narrow opportunities when I’m not completely certain of my future plans.

Also, I was looking at the list of RSOs and some of them were undergraduate economics research associations, for example Oeconomica. Are these likely to provide me an opportunity for meaningful research that would improve my PhD application?

Don’t know a ton about Oeconomica. What will help you the most is salient, supervised work with a faculty member who could potentially write you a recommendation. A BA thesis is excellent because you’ll a) demonstrate that you can write a thesis under supervision (which is the main expectation of a PhD), b) get a strong rec from someone who knows you and your academic abilities well, and c) have a compelling writing sample. Working as a research assistant for a Prof is more useful because you can get a recommendation out of it. Oeconomica runs events that are probably good practice for “real” research and hosts lots of talks for you to explore, but in general RSOs are tertiary (behind pretty much everything else) in PhD admissions (it’s different from law or med school).

And idk, it depends what you want. Certain fields are dominated by image and networking and it almost doesn’t matter what you do in school. If you wanna do, say, algorithmic trading, what you should be doing looks basically identical to preparing for an econ PhD with perhaps more emphasis on CS and less emphasis on research (but equal emphasis on math). Worry about your GPA when you actually have one. In any case, it doesn’t matter as much as you are probably assuming it does.

@collegethrowaway3473 don’t forget the possibility of a PhD from a business school. Preparation at the undergraduate level really wouldn’t change if you wanted to be open to that path.

RSO’s can be loads of fun and in this case you would find companionship with others who like to spend their time thinking about economics, as well as stumble onto a particular field that really sparks your interest and enthusiasm. There might also be a strong “career development” aspect because professional schools and employers like recruits who engage in interesting intellectual stuff during their free time. Finally, it might give you a lot of insight into whether a PhD program is really for you (see the story below). To me, that would probably be the BIGGEST benefit of Oeconomica.

You might also look into whether this society is viewed similarly to something like “Law Review” as a serious academic organization for the best students in the department. If so, it’ll directly assist you with your PhD goals. If not - then you still might do it for the experience - but make sure it doesn’t substitute for the other things you need to do.

As you progress toward your undergraduate degree, keep in touch with faculty about your long term options and interest in a research career. They will be honest - perhaps brutally so. And that will be a good thing! Don’t be discouraged but do take them seriously: many smart young people feel inclined to pursue a PhD, but few are selected, and fewer still find a post at a top-notch research institution or think-tank upon completion. Even assuming you do succeed that way, your chances of getting tenure, all else equal, are pretty small. In addition to having math skills, you have to be a creative and original thinker of how to solve relevant economic problems - and you have to be able to articulate - in sometimes a pretty critical environment - why your ideas are worth pursuing. You have to be publishing constantly (approximately one original work every 12-18 months) and hitting doubles on a good amount of your stuff (hitting a home run - even in the “working paper” phase - will get you pretty far on its own). You won’t have all the time you need to do this, like you did as a PhD student, because you will also need to factor teaching and administrative responsibilities into your available time (although good institutions will typically go a bit light on those, in order to allow you to build up a body of work).

You won’t understand any of the above at this point - nor should you. But here is a pithy story that you SHOULD remember because it sums up exactly who is right and who isn’t for a PhD program (and yes, this is a true story, not just a legend or something they teach you in PhD-school):

A tenured grad-school professor in a highly reputable PhD program, a la Prof. Lambeau in “Good Will Hunting”, once assigned a super-interesting problem to his first year class to work on over the weekend. Everyone was buzzing about it, working hard, and totally engaged in the challenge. On Monday he did the “reveal” and everyone was like “Wow that’s so cool.” Later that day, a first year student came to his office and announced he was leaving the program. When asked Why?, the student responded that, unlike his classmates, he was NOT interested in the problem, nor the solution. He didn’t enjoy the challenge, nor the experience of trying to solve it with a deadline looming. He realized that he wasn’t cut out for PhD stuff. That professor helped him develop a key insight right away, long before he would spend wasted years slaving away at something he really didn’t really love doing. Now you have the chance to develop that insight as you progress through your undergraduate program. If you love it, go for it. If you don’t, find what it is you DO love - and do that instead.