Plan II Honors vs. Liberal Arts Honors

Colleges and Universities A-Z The University of Texas at Austin
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<p>Okay, so I'm a little ticked off right now because I got rejected from the Liberal Arts Honors Program a couple days ago but accepted into Plan II Honors in late February.</p>

<p>Can anyone tell me why this happened? I mean, it's not like I WANTED to get into Liberal Arts Honors, since I got into Plan II, but I don't understand...I thought getting into Plan II Honors meant you were basically accepted into LAH as well.</p>

<p>theloneranger: you're the forum expert on UT here :), can you give me a good breakdown on the similarities/differences between Plan II and LAH? Advantages/disadvantages of each progam? And maybe why this happened?</p>

<p>This is weird. I didn't expect to get into the higher program only to be rejected from the lower one--I'm slightly confused.</p>

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<p>OOPS sorry I found another thread that answered the "weirdness" of what happened.</p>

<p>But I would still like some helpful input on the similarities/differences and advantages/disadvantages of each program!</p>

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<p>Admissions wise, I'm pretty sure LAH is more about grades and scores than Plan II, particularly in your liberal arts classes.</p>

<p>Plan II cares more about how well rounded you are as a person. Plus essays are 40% of the admission criteria.</p>

<p>Plan II is a major. You take a specific set of courses, many of which are Plan II specific. Of course, you also have to take the regular area requirements, some of which may not have Plan II sections.</p>

<p>LA Freshman Honors is not a major. It is honors sections of required courses, plus an hour seminar on critical thinking. The difference here is that you don't have to commit to an honors major, you can do any major or majors in the college of Liberal Arts and outside. After the first two years, it becomes honors courses in your chosen major (and Plan II Kids are elligible for this if they take another major).</p>

<p>LAH is larger and generally easier to get in to, so it's less prestigious. It's also less well known.</p>

<p>I don't know what LAH can offer that Plan II couldn't exceed unless you already have two very specific liberal arts majors in mind that you don't want to give up.</p>

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<p>There are supposed to be 150 freshmen in Liberal Arts Honors. How many freshmen are they targetting for Plan II? I didn't know Liberal Arts Honors was larger. I thought they were about the same size.</p>

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<p>Well okay yeah I remember that too. That means Plan II is a little larger actually.</p>

<p>But I think LAH's yield is much lower (I think I read 1 in 3 get accepted, and there is no way they have that low of a number of applicants).</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info, theloneranger.</p>

<p>MidwestMom2Kids_: Plan II admits 330 applicants out of 850-1100 total applicants and aim for 180 to matriculate. </p>

<p>As for LAH, I do not know.</p>

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<p>If people who applied to LAH and Plan II posted their stats maybe we could see if there was a pattern in rejections or acceptances based on grades or tests scores (if that is indeed what LAH values more). Just a thought.</p>

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<p>LAH probably admits 75% of Plan II acceptees, and I believe that at least 95% choose Plan II.</p>

<p>These stats are completely made up, but I doubt they are far from the truth.</p>

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<p>Plan II wants people with 1400+ SATs who were in at least the top 10%, preferably top 5% of their HS class. I don't see how LAH could afford to be much more selective than that...</p>

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<p>Plan II is a far superior program to the LAH. Its really that simple. Anyone who argues that LAH is better is clearly misinformed. Most of the LAH kids are the ones who were denied by Plan II and then accepted by LAH. I really can't think of one aspect where LAH has the upper-hand over Plan II. It has less (prestige and resources, its more grade driven, less known, and it has been labeled as the easiest Honors program to get into. The shear numbers of the student who get into Plan II also smash the notion that LAH is a better program. Plan II avg SAT score 1420, avg class rank Top 3% 78% are Nationally Merit recognized, I could go on and on and on.........</p>

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<p>Ok Texas 08, I got into Plan II and I agree but theres no need to be arrogant...</p>

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<p>Plan II has been in existence for over 70 years with a well-established (and well-earned) reputation for providing its students with a high quality liberal arts education. It is true that the students accepted by Plan II are high achievers. However, being rejected by Plan II and accepted by Liberal Arts Honors (in existence for 15 years) does not mean that there is any significant difference in the quality of the two sets of students. In fact, the clue is that Plan II heavily weights the required student essays. </p>

<p>Within these essays, the Plan II selection committee looks for a writing style that will identify students for acceptance as having a certain quality, (or ability to express that quality) that appeals to the Plan II selection committee. Thus, I know of high school students who were rejected by Plan II who were National Merit Scholars, also highly trained musicians, and who played sports at the state competition level and who were leaders of clubs in high school. However, they were accepted by UT's Liberal Arts Honors program. Plan II is very up front in saying that they have to reject many students, due to lack of space, and noting that these same students would have done quite well in the Plan II program of study.</p>

<p>Having spoken with representatives of the Liberal Arts Honors administration, I know that the freshman class entering in fall 2008 had an average SAT score of slightly below 1400 and ranked well within the top 6% of their high school graduating class. The 2008 Liberal Arts Honors entering class will have 147 students selected from 1,000 applicants. The academic background of these students equals or betters that of the most highly ranked universities, public or private, in the United States. Like Plan II students, the Liberal Arts Honors students also form a community of liberal arts scholars, in essence, an extremely high quality small liberal arts college with the resources of a large prestigious state university. I attended a Liberal Arts Honors history class as a guest, and found the professor to be highly skilled, innovative, and an excellent teacher. </p>

<p>I predict that in another few years the UT Liberal Arts Honors program will develop a more distinct identity, as well as immensely increased public awareness about the already high quality of its academic program.</p>

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<p>The two programs are really quite different. They are both great, and there are terrific, smart students in each. (And yes, Plan II has students who can write absolutely fabulous Plan II Admissions essays.)</p>

<p>Plan II has a set curriculum. You have less flexibility than you would in Liberal Arts Honors, especially with respect to using your AP credits. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that for Plan II:</p>

<p>You need to take a full year of Plan II World Lit even if you have AP credit for English Lit.</p>

<p>You need to take a full year of Plan II Philosophy.</p>

<p>You need to take the full year of American History like everyone else but you also need to take a full year of history from a different location outside the U.S.</p>

<p>You need to take Plan II Concepts of Physics even if you have AP credit for physics, and you need to take Plan II Biology even if you have AP credit for bio.</p>

<p>I am not sure about the other requirements; the Plan II gov requirement looks like it is about the same as everyone else's.</p>

<p>Plan II has a very nice curriculum but Plan II is not everyone's cup of tea. If you want to be in honors classes but want more flexibility, you might consider applying to Liberal Arts Honors instead. </p>

<p>It is my understanding that most Plan II students double major. If you are in Liberal Arts Honors instead, you will lose the chance to say that you double-majored in Plan II in addition to your subject major, but (especially if you come in with AP credit) you will have fewer required classes to take and more flexibility for extra classes in your major or minor and for a full year of study abroad.</p>

<p>Liberal Arts Honors is not just a program made up of people who applied to Plan II and were rejected by Plan II. </p>

<p>I think there are about 130 first-year students in LAH this fall.</p>

1 Like
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<p>texas08, for someone who I take it is in Plan II and obviously very proud of it (which you should be), you should have a bit more humility. And you also spelled sheer wrong.</p>

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<p>I think texas08 may just have been a troll, trying to stir people up. I just couldn't resist posting - wanted to add to PegLegGrad's post.</p>

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<p>My son went to the honors colloquium. He told me that several of the honors programs presented their programs with an analogy to food. I am telling this second hand so I appologize if I don't say this completely correctly but I think you will get the gist. Plan II was described as a full course meal with all of the trimmings. Liberal Arts honors was presented as being for people who don't want a full course meal. Perhaps they only want the steak.... From what I gather the Plan II core curriculum is very comprehensive while LAH is more LA focused without the requirement to take a wide range of specific courses. From all that I have heard those are some awesome required classes but LAH probably suits those who prefer not to take those requirements better.</p>

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<p>LAH works especially well for students whose major has particularly intense requirements and requires a year of study abroad. LAH provides freshman year programming, gread honors advisors, ahelpful, interesting peer group and enrichment beyond the planned major.</p>

<p>I am sure many of the LAH students come in with their UT math and science requirements already covered by their AP scores; they just "check those off" and then only take math and science courses they want to take or that will easily fit into their schedule.</p>

<p>For students whose major has particularly intense requirements and requires a year of study abroad, Plan II adds the requirements for a second major in Plan II.</p>

<p>It just depends on what you are looking for. Both programs are great.</p>

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<p>So to continue the food analogy, some may prefer LAH because they have already eaten and don't want to eat again (AP classes), because they are saving room for dessert (majors with intense requirements and study abroad), or because they want double helpings of the main course (double major other than Plan II) :). I agree they both sound like outstanding programs. My son and I have been trying to figure out the differences between the two and this discussion has been very helpful in sorting this out. It would be wonderful to have the luxury of having to make the choice! </p>

<p>One question though, from what I have heard Plan II has an outstanding study abroad program. Is there a difference in this between the two programs?</p>

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<p>University of Texas has great study abroad programs.</p>

<p>Both LAH and Plan II offer special scholarships for students in their programs for study abroad.</p>

<p>This June, Plan II had a cool 6-credit trip to Rome limited to Plan II students; it sounds like it was really great; I don't know if they do that every year or not.</p>

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<p>As a current Plan II student let me give my thoughts:</p>

<p>LAH and Plan II are vastly different. It really boils down to, what do you want out of your undergraduate experience. LAH is typical of many other public university honors programs. The classes are generally smaller and more in depth on the subject matter. Students tend to be goal oriented, know what they want in life, and a large portion of the admission process is based on numbers. Think of LAH as AP courses in college.</p>

<p>Plan II draws in my opinion a much different student. While nearly all of Plan II students possess extremely high SAT scores, leadership positions etc.>>the intangibles. Their general attitude is much less goal oriented and in a sense the focus is on "living, experiencing, and learning in the present" Many Plan II majors haven't a clue what they want to do in life. This is primarily because they are so good at so many things relative to this point in their lives. Realistically, they are qualified to do anything they want, but they made a choice to extend their experience, to live a life defined by learning, not narrowing to one concentration, just yet. They still possess the questions that cross interdisciplinary boundaries and they still want a frame of reference that is as broad and as thorough as possible at the undergraduate level. Plan II majors (it is a major) want the perspectives gained in the post high school (post idealistic stage in my opinion) that forms new roots at this new, very significant, stage in life. A time when independence is much more likely now than it was mere months, years, or weeks ago. Plan II students want to prolong the question "What do you want to be in life" longer. In a society defined by people changing their careers more than, 5,7,10 (however many times) Plan II students want to invest their time (4years) to not being trapt or contained in a sense to one field. It is my strong opinion that very few bright minded people, with many capabilities and talents, know what they want in life. They have a sense to keep searching rather then settling. In Plan II students are forced to experience new perspectives, new ways of thinking, and almost certainly new joys they never thought possible. I won't lie, it is a risk to major in Plan II, I mean you constantly face the problem of explaining your major and getting puzzled looks on people faces like...really, thats not how the system works...you HAVE to declare a major. I say I Plan II, whenever that is doesn't concern me and if it doesn't concern you I highly recommend this program. Plan II is risky, but within the greatest risks lies the greatest rewards. With world renowned alumni and amazing profs I have rational faith (as I learned in my first year PHL course on Uses and Abuses of the Bible) that I will find what I love and love what I find. When you boil down the essence of what makes us human, especially for the students out there that love to think, a rational faith in something is one of the most inherently good things discoverable. It takes searching and it takes dedication but the reward is possible and probable if you want it...</p>

<p>*just another perspective from a current Plan II student</p>