“If not, what’s the big deal with the name change”
It’s not a big deal. That’s why parents who change their children’s names “for” the supposed purpose of college admissions are doing something foolish. As I said earlier, if you are White or Asian and you are applying for an over-represented MAJOR from an overrepresented REGION to a highly desirous COLLEGE, you will be remembered and have staying power not for any differences in name but for differences in what you bring to the college. If you “look” just like your competitors, academically and geographically, it doesn’t matter if you have 9 portions to your name or have changed your name 9 times in the last 4 years. NO ONE CARES except people trying to stake a phony claim for “discrimination.” Everyone whose goals, academic background, and region are too similar/identical to those competing with him on those particular measures will be “discriminated against” based sheerly on numbers and nothing else.
So if I were on an admissions committee and were to discover a name change (in this generation), I would think only one thing: the student must not be smart enough for my college because he doesn’t understand the essential mathematics of the above and hasn’t bothered to do his research; instead, he chose a strategy that made neither a positive nor a negative difference.
Definitely lacking in research and analytical skills.
@dadof3 makes a good point.
The UCs (University of CA) supposedly excludes race from the collage admission process. The result is a student body that is approximately 40% Asian. (The state of CA is approx. 15% Asian on last census). NO, all of these Asian students are not all STEM. They are all sorts of majors at UC, even English. No, the engineering and bio majors at UCLA and UC Berkeley are not 100% Asian. So we have an example of what student bodies look like when race is excluded.
“he UCs (University of CA) supposedly excludes race from the collage admission process. The result is a student body that is approximately 40% Asian. (The state of CA is approx. 15% Asian on last census). NO, all of these Asian students are not all STEM. They are all sorts of majors at UC, even English. No, the engineering and bio majors at UCLA and UC Berkeley are not 100% Asian. So we have an example of what student bodies look like when race is excluded.”
We know that. And we know that Private colleges don’t want student bodies that are 40% anything. They want maximum diversity – geographically and in interests – as long as that maximum does not compromise the quality of the educational experience and product.
Berkeley’s currently about 42% Asian and 28% White but has been as high as 47% Asian recently.
“We know that. And we know that Private colleges don’t want student bodies that are 40% anything. They want maximum diversity – geographically and in interests – as long as that maximum does not compromise the quality of the educational experience and product.”
Well, Harvard’s undergrad population is 46% White. So it does seem that SOME Private colleges DO want student bodies that are 40% SOMETHING…
Well, if I were a college admissions officer secretly tasked with limiting the number of Asians admitted, the LAST person I’d admit would be somebody who tried to trick me into thinking he wasn’t Asian. If it happened one or two times, I’d make it my business to make sure it didn’t happen again.
Agree with your post 84, Hunt, that there are additional issues involved. I was merely approaching it from another side. One of my students this year decided to ignore all advice and approach college admissions as a Take-No-Prisoners General. I have, sadly, never seen such raw opportunism and “gaming the system” in such a young person. She was rejected not only from every single private but from her state’s two outstanding publics, even though she had all the stats for admission.
Character counts, and there are many elements to character.
The point is that there is still far more diversity on all measures of origins and student preferences at the top privates than there are at most publics, including U.C. And the privates have every right to keep it that way. I applaud them.
“The UCs (University of CA) supposedly excludes race from the collage admission process. The result is a student body that is approximately 40% Asian. (The state of CA is approx. 15% Asian on last census)”
" No, the engineering and bio majors at UCLA and UC Berkeley are not 100% Asian. So we have an example of what student bodies look like when race is excluded." Yes, we do. Asians appear to be almost 3x as likely to be admitted.
“They are all sorts of majors at UC, even English. No, the engineering and bio majors at UCLA and UC Berkeley are not 100% Asian.” A few counter examples does not disprove the trend. Would you like to provide us with the percent STEM vs. percent English majors? Personally I think you have to live under a rock to believe that the Asian students are not flocking to STEM majors. I have seen it as the kids are growing up–Asians very highly over-represented as participants in math teams and robotics at school, local, regional, and state level, etc, and this over-representation was strikingly absent in every single literary, creative, humanities, and arts activity my kids participated in again at school, local, regional, and national levels. This was clearly evident both at the middle and high school levels. I have also seen it at every college we toured. Much higher Asian student population in the STEM classes we attended than the humanities ones. This trend is clear also at my daughter’s holistic admission college.
Something that would be illuminating would be ethnic representation by generation number since immigration and/or parental education level. I would not be surprised if Asian students were not or less overrepresented when those are taken into account.
“Would you like to provide us with the percent STEM vs. percent English majors? Personally I think you have to live under a rock to believe that the Asian students are not flocking to STEM majors. I have seen it as the kids are growing up–Asians very highly over-represented as participants in math teams and robotics at school, local, regional, and state level, etc, and this over-representation was strikingly absent in every single literary, creative, humanities, and arts activity my kids participated in again at school, local, regional, and national levels. This was clearly evident both at the middle and high school levels. I have also seen it at every college we toured.”
Yep.
The non-STEM majors at both private and public colleges (as well as, yes, K-12 education) are not evenly distributed among personal origins, not by a long shot. Majors are patently lopsided, in some cases to an extreme.
One of the Asian students I counseled this admissions cycle was undergoing emotional free-fall because her HS was 100% Asian and 98% STEM-oriented; the student body openly mocked her interest in humanities. That marginalization was unfortunately supported by her parents, which added despair to the humiliation. By the time I saw the student, she was a basket case, having internalized the pressure toward STEM futures despite her clear abilities in different areas. She struggled to write essays that were not entirely negative and filled with rage and defensiveness.
So you didn’t do your job right and convinced her otherwise. And why would she go seek a counselor if she is so determined to do it her way. Perhaps you should have told her to save her money and you can’t help her.
How many Asians do you personally know who has changed their last names in order to hide their ethnicity from college admissions. I mean the ones who actually told you not ones you have guessed.
I don’t know ANY Asians who have non-Asian last names besides those adopted into non-Asian families.
Changing first names don’t count because many Asians are Christians and there is a traditional of having Christian names.
Just wanted to add some numbers to my previous observation. Our high school is 6% Asian. Judging by last names (and I also know many of these kids) our high school math team is 45% Asian. Our high school literary magazine staff is 3% Asian. You don’t need a degree in statistics to see the trend.
Where do you come off – not knowing me – telling me I “didn’t do [my] job right.” Go soak your head. You have no clue what you’re talking about. My job was not predicated on “convincing” her. I “inherited” her late in the game. She came to the process very late in the application cycle, after I agreed to take her on – not realizing (until I committed) that she had zero ethics and her middle name was Machiavelli. I was given false information about her. Had I been given honest information, I would have rejected her as a client. After that, I in fact spent a great deal of time explaining to her how very ill-suited her utterly self-centered strategy was to the very universities she was seeking. I told her the colleges would be turned OFF by her Entitled attitudes. She chose to ignore me because this is a free country. It’s not possible to coerce a minor who is not your own child to do something or else. You seem not to have much experience in the real world of college applications. No student is required to submit essay topics, and avoid other essay topics or tones of voice, suggested by a paid or unpaid counselor.
My post against which you are ranting and hyperventilating said nothing about personally knowing Asians who changed their or their child’s names. ** The hypothetical topic was being generally discussed – the wisdom of it, the ethics of it, the consequences of it. **
Go yell at someone else, maybe after you examine the posting facts here.
Since you claim to be a professional, after an initial consultation would be sufficient to tell you she is not the type of client you wish to accept.
And what is the point of posting about her ? Because she was Asian?
Since no one knows personally any Asian who has changed his/her last name with the specific intent of fooling college admission, this is just hearsay, what is the point of this discussion ?
The posters here who have adopted Asian children with non-Asian last names (real life experience) have said adcoms don’t care. Period.
I do. I said so upthread. One of my younger children is in middle school, and it is someone in his grade. It is their oldest child. The new name begins with the same first letter and retains most of the other letters from the original name, but changed slightly so that it is not Asian-sounding.
