So are yours. When did I say anything about the students at Williams or Mudd? Reading is fundamental.
The folks at US News define it this way:
National Universities offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master’s and doctoral programs, and emphasize faculty research.
National Liberal Arts Colleges focus almost exclusively on undergraduate education. They award at least 50 percent of their degrees in the arts and sciences.
Note the above, that USNWR no longer uses the term “National Research Universities,” perhaps in recognition that research would not be a distinguishing attribute between universities and purely undergraduate-focused colleges.
Every once in awhile, I see something on CC that just really tickles my funny bone. It’s been a long time…but today, there’s this gem. So glad I was able to catch it.
Ahem. OP, LACs are a good fit for some, horrible for others. Small class size can mean that there’s lots of help and attention from the professors, but that’s not guaranteed; there have been a few parents who’ve reported about how going to a LAC does not necessarily provide a safety net if a student is struggling. And there’s a range, going from Caltech to Westpoint to Swarthmore to Berea.
It’s long been a CC mantra that honors colleges can provide some of the LAC benefits at a more affordable price. Pitt honors, UT Plan II, UCSB College of Creative Studies are a few examples; the latter two not helpful for someone OOS but there are other options to be explored.
All LACs are not private…the COPLAC website has info on the public liberal arts colleges. I like to think of the letter L as meaning liberal in the sense that most students explore a liberal dose of areas outside of their majors as constrasted to a rigorous engineering program where is limited opportunity to explore classes outside the major if the student wants to graduate in 4 years.
True^^^ SUNY Geneseo is a public LAC.
- Some of the better-known universities that are somewhat LAC-like in their undergraduate focus are Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown, and Brandeis -- based on percentage of all students who are undergrads. (i believe all of these have student populations that are at least roughly two-thirds undergrad. There are more like them...)
- The class size difference between LACs and universities is more pronounced in survey courses than it is in upper-level courses: by the time a university student is taking the classes in his or her major, class sizes are typically fairly small -- not the large lectures with hundreds of students you might experience in a course like Psych 101.
- Some LACs have a large Greek scene -- Washington & Lee comes to mind.
You can have a rigorous engineering program and a large number of out-of-major courses in your four years. Consider the curricula for MIT (not a LAC) and Harvey Mudd (usually considered a LAC) – both have extensive core curricula / general education requirements (including lots of humanities and social studies courses) along with major requirements for engineering and other majors.
Yes, that’s not really what the L in LAC usually means–the “liberal arts” are the foundational disciplines, excepting pre-professional programs or specializations. At an LAC, for instance, you probably won’t find a major in “applied math” but rather in “math,” “chemistry” rather than “chemical engineering.”
This thread seems to be about pretty much everyone arguing against one misguided, inflammatory poster who isn’t going to change his/her mind because they aren’t open to facts or sense even when provided direct links such as the Army calling their own military academy a LAC.
I know LAC refers to colleges but I use it to weigh a student applying to colleges: Is he/she more of a LAC student? In that regard every Ivy League school is a LAC.
I attended an LAC (Reed). To me LAC just means small, and with some notable exceptions, not focused on technology. My college had a limited variety of majors, but in many of them the instruction is superb, as is documented indirectly by the number of graduates who go on to earn doctorates (I posted a link earlier in this thread – post #30). For my kids, I wanted them to have intellectually intensive programs, which they got in different ways (UChicago and RISD) though not in LAC’s, but in the kind of intellectual setting that many of the best LAC’s have.
I think you really need to think/google before you post. You are digging yourself into a hole. Truman State has nearly 6500 students and a COA of approx $25K OOS and $17K IS - neither very very small or expensive. Plus it is a Nationally recognized school.
Okay. Is the word “probably” also on Google? Still never heard of either of them so not sure how nationally recognized they are. Again, if a parent or student does his/her/their research and knows what they are getting in terms of student experiences and opportunities and is willing to cover the cost out of pocket or with debt/awards then it is fine by me where they go and what they do. The OP asked what an LAC was and I opined from not perspective not what Forbes or anyone else thinks a LAC is although some of the replies have helped me reshape my original opinion.
I’d say that if anything, LACs tend to be most appropriate for students who are relatively mature and socially adept. It’s a lot harder to be anonymous and disengaged in a 15-student discussion class than it is at the back of a 300-student lecture hall. Of course, there are all kinds of kids at LACs as well as at research universities.
There are public LACs with low cost (Geneseo, New College of FLorida for instance), and a couple of private ones that are free (Berea, for one) .
There are private universities that cost more than LACs, and public universities are really expensive for out of state students (and sometimes cost more than LACs instate as well).
I don’t understand why you single out LACs for this cost criticism?
I’m feeling a bit like Mandy Patinkin in Princess Bride 
No cost isn’t a factor. There are LACs with a wide range of costs…just like there are universities with a wide range of costs. Really if you cut to the chase an LAC is a college (no masters degrees, no PhD degrees) focused on non vocational (as in nursing, engineering, business, Elementary/Secondary Education, etc…) education. Fine Arts, Humanities, Natural Sciences, Mathematics and Classical and Modern Languages and Social Sciences. Some LACs might have interdisciplinary majors but LACs don’t typically have career preparation studies. Again size doesn’t matter and a small college with Engineering, I personally would not classify as a “liberal arts college”. But who cares? There a huge variety of institutions not JUST LACs and Universities so find the place that has what you want to study and don’t worry about what USNWR classifies the college you are interested in.
Do you guys say “L A C” (the letters…) or “lack” (the word those letters form)?
I have always thought of it as “lack” as in, “I wonder which other [lacks] Hillary considered.”
The clue there @prezbucky , is whether people type “a LAC” or “an LAC” - presumably the second group are spelling it out. I see both on CC.
@prezbucky pronounced like “lack” as in “A certain poster surely lacks any real understanding of what LACs are all about.”
@momofthreeboys In general, I think your description is correct but there are some LACs that offer business, engineering, and teaching accreditation.