Please comment on draft application list

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Here is DD1's working application list so far. Personally, I think it's too reach heavy. I would appreciate feedback. DD1 is a politically and socially liberal, non-religious, very mature, upper-middle-class, white female at an average CA suburban public H.S. </p>

<p>Stats:</p>

<p>GPA 3.9x (UW-one B), 4.4x (W), Class rank: top 1%
SAT I 2080 (630m, 730cr, 720w) (one sitting, no prep - taking again with prep)
SAT II Bio 730, US Hist 750, Eng Lit 790
ACT 30 (ugh, math/science not so good, 36 on reading)
AP's: World Hist (5), Bio (5), Eng Lit (5), US Hist (5), Psych (5 self study) - 3 AP's sr. year
EC's: Debate (captain, state finalist), mock trial (co-captain, state medalist), GSA (officer)</p>

<p>Anticipated major: Poli Sci, History, or double (pre-law)</p>

<p>Assume money no issue.</p>

<p>Current working list:</p>

<p>Reach:</p>

<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Penn
Stanford
UChicago
Northwestern</p>

<p>High Match:</p>

<p>Georgetown
Tufts
Brandeis
William & Mary</p>

<p>Match:</p>

<p>Case Western
Lafayette
UC Berkeley
UCLA
UC Santa Barbara
UC San Diego</p>

<p>Safety:</p>

<p>U Washington
U Mass Amherst</p>

<p>In recent years, top 2% students from her HS (with comparable stats) have been accepted to Yale, Penn, Stanford, UChicago, William & Mary, Georgetown, etc., and many UC acceptances among the top 5-10%.</p>

<p>DD1 is very brand-conscious; in competition with other top students at her school to see who gets in where. She is realistic about reaches and does not expect to get in, but her view is what the heck, I'll send a lot of applications and maybe get lucky with one. She really likes the idea of UChicago. Not really showing any interest in small LAC's, although personally I think she is a big fish/small pond type person. Most schools will have her major. The only "must-have" is a mock trial program since this is her passion and she wants to compete at the college level. Would prefer to go out of state, but only if she gets in some place comparable to or better than UCLA, which she expects to get into and is her first choice in-state. (Did a summer program and liked it.) </p>

<p>I would appreciate suggestions for deletions/additions to her list, but please do not suggest any schools in the Deep South. I wish she would be a little more open-minded, but DD1 says Virginia is as far south as she will go.</p>

2

<p>It is reach heavy considering that she has a 1360 M+CR…which makes her very unlikely for schools like HYPS…She has no hooks and her scores put her in the bottom quartile where athletes and special admits are. There would be little reason why those schools would choose a white upper-middle class student from Calif with those stats w/o some other significant hook. (BTW…your income is HIGHER than upper-middle class)</p>

<p>Unless her retest M+CR scores are in the 1460+, I’d take HYPS off…or at least some of them. </p>

<p>You say to assume money isn’t an issue, but I know from past posts it can be one for you, so your choice of UWash as a safety is unusual. OOS merit at that school isn’t likely. You’d be expected to pay full or near full cost. If that’s not ok, then it’s not a safety. I know that you expect UMass to be a merit source. Unless that merit is assured for stats, you may need to add another safety.</p>

<p>Is your D applying to any CSU’s???</p>

3

<p>What has her college visit experience been (other than the summer program at UCLA)? If she hasn’t spent much time on LAC campuses, I’d try to set up some visits (realize that is difficult during the school year, and there’s not much summer left). Claremont colleges might at least give her an idea of the LAC feel (and while several are not realistic with her stats, Scripps would certainly be a possibility. Even if she’s not keen on a women’s college, the consortium is there, as it would be at Wellesley). </p>

<p>mom2collegekids always has good advice; agree with her that list is reach-heavy.</p>

4

<p>Why Case Western? It doesn’t seem to match her majors…</p>

<p>If she wanted to add another name LAC (since you think she might like one), consider Gettysburg.</p>

5

<p>Unless the SATs come up in the next round of testing (which they may if you prepared well) the list is way too reach heavy. I think with your current stats the reach schools are almost out of range and that your high match schools plus UC Berkeley are reaches. My advice is to wait until the results of the next round of SATs and, if needed, adjust your list accordingly.</p>

<p>If it helps at all, my D is at Lafayette and absolutely loves the school (she did want a LAC).</p>

6

<p>Yes, I know the list is reach heavy. I said that myself at the outset of my post. Goal of SAT prep is to improve math by 50-70 points. If she can pick up 10 to 20 in reading and writing as well, she could be in the high 2100’s, maybe even break 2200, which should make her more HYPS competitive. Thing is, she knows kids from her school who got into HYPS with similar stats. One kid she knows got into Penn with a 2040 SAT and no obvious hooks. She thinks, “if X, why not me?” She’s not interested in CSU’s. Pretty confident based on school history that she will get into at least one of the 4 UC’s she is applying to with her stats.</p>

<p>m2ck: disagree… for my neck of the woods, my income is upper-middle-class (I’m looking around at my 1900 sf suburban tract home that is barely above water and two 5 year old cars, both still with loans out on them, and I’m pretty sure I’m not rich). Also, as I’ve updated in more recent posts, college money is no longer an issue. Further discussions among wealthy GP’s, DD1, and me has led to a deal: I pay the CSU equivalent ($15-20k/yr) and they will pay the difference. Hence merit $ would be nice, but not critical to the decision-making process.</p>

7

<p>Case does have poli-sci and mock trial, but will probably drop off the list. Looked closely at Gettysburg on paper and liked it, but no mock trial team, so it’s out. She’s looked at her school stats and many kids ranked in top 5% have been accepted at multiple UC’s, including Berkeley, UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, etc. She is ranked 2 or 3 in her class and still has a shot at val. I think she’ll get into at least one and probably all four. Those may be reaches for OOS, but they’re matches for DD1.</p>

8

<p>What about American University or George Washington University? I don’t know if they have mock trial, but they would be matches for her I would think.</p>

9

<p>Hoggirl - We visited DC in the spring. She loved DC, but did not like GWU, so it’s out. She knows a few kids from her school who are attending American. They were much lower in class rank. One nearly flunked out senior year and still got in. No offense to American students, but in relation to people she knows, she would view it as a personal failure if that’s where she ended up. So there’s no way she will even apply.</p>

10

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<p>Any strings attached to the GPs’ money are only attached to DD1, not you, right?</p>

<p>You may be underestimating CSU costs. Here is an example:
[Cost</a> of Attendance | Financial Aid and Scholarship Office | San Jose State University](<a href=“http://www.sjsu.edu/faso/Applying/Cost_of_Attendance/]Cost”>http://www.sjsu.edu/faso/Applying/Cost_of_Attendance/)</p>

11

<p>Georgetown, Tufts, UCLA and UC Berkeley should be viewed as reach.</p>

<p>Because she’s a California resident in the top 1% at her high school she’s assured of getting into at least one of the UCs, possibly Santa Barbara, and most certainly Riverside. In other words the UCs can be the safety. My sense is that even one of the lower UCs is as good as the two safeties on her list.</p>

<p>The notion that applying to a large number of very selective colleges to increase the chances of getting into at least one of them is rarely borne out by the reality of acceptance statistics. Those very selective colleges have somewhat similar ways of looking at candidates. It’s very dispiriting come April 1 to face a long list of denials.</p>

<p>The application process for each of the (private) reach colleges on your daughter’s list requires a great deal of effort. Essays matter and they cannot be easily reused. First semester senior grades also matter. So she may not have the time to prepare exceptional applications.</p>

<p>I agree with a previous post that American is a good addition to the list (as a Match). There are many smart students there.</p>

12

<p>I actually checked the acceptances at her school and here are the stats on UC acceptances for this year:</p>

<p>UC Berkeley: 5
UCLA: 6
UCSD: 9
UCSB: 11
UCDavis: 19</p>

<p>I did not bother to count the UCI’s, UCR’s, and UC Santa Cruz.</p>

<p>Being ranked in the top 3 in her class, I think the UC’s, even Berkeley and UCLA, are matches, not reaches.</p>

13

<p>ucbalumnus: Yes, her strings. She knows the score.</p>

14

<p>Fogcity: “I agree with a previous post that American is a good addition to the list (as a Match). There are many smart students there.”</p>

<p>I agree, but she won’t apply. See post #9.</p>

15

<p>m2ck: disagree… for my neck of the woods, my income is upper-middle-class</p>

<p>That’s not how SCHOOLs will look at your income. They don’t take into acct “region”.</p>

<p>One kid she knows got into Penn with a 2040 SAT and no obvious hooks. She thinks, "if X, why not me</p>

<p>well, if she doesn’t mind doing all the apps. She really doesn’t know the “ins and outs” of this kid’s app. And his M+CR may be much higher. Or he may have a major that needs more students.</p>

16

<p>What about University of Virginia in place of one of the Ivies? Looked at the CDS and her (current) SAT scores put her in the 75th% for reading and writing, 25th% for math, which she can hopefully raise. Would seem to be a match. Thoughts?</p>

17

<p>I hope you’re looking to cut this list, because 19 schools is entirely too many. Way too many reaches.</p>

18

<p>Etuck - agreed. This is a rough list that definitely needs pruning, focus. Case is probably coming off, as is W&M. Lafayette may come off if she definitely does not want a LAC. I don’t think she needs UWash as a safety because she’ll get into at least one UC, which would be a better choice. UMass may be the same category, but it would give her a guaranteed east coast option, so it may stay on for that reason. I think she should drop Stanford as well and probably Northwestern. A lot depends on fall SAT scores.</p>

19

<p>Follow up to post #12: Other interesting places top kids at her school were accepted…
Smith, NYU (2), G-Town, W&M, JHU, Stanford, Duke, Tufts, Wash U SL, UChicago (2), Rochester. So you can’t blame her for thinking she has a shot at her reaches.</p>

20

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<p>While she likely has ELC (which depends on her UC admissions GPA being in the top 9% compared to previous high school classes), that likely means that if she is not admitted to any UC she explicitly applies to, she will likely get admitted to UC Merced. If she wants to use the UC system as her safety, she should explicitly apply to all UCs that she prefers over UC Merced.</p>