Please Counsel Me - My DS 1st paper = F

Parents Forum
41

<p>"She's at a tiny school in PA, so I don't want to name it. I don't think it's the school, it's the professor. She didn't have AP chem in high school and he's working under the impression that they all did. "</p>

<p>You may want to start another thread on this topic, which is important.
My experience as a prof and a student has been that freshman chemistry is the killer course on almost all college campuses. It's also the course that's used to separate the students who'll go to med school from the wannabe doctors.</p>

<p>Often, students run into professors who are immigrants whose English is difficult to understand, and who don't have much patience with students who don't understand the material (which can be hard even if one did have AP chemistry).</p>

<p>Consequently, it is well worth it to pay money for a good tutor in that subject.</p>

42

<p>"My experience as a prof and a student has been that freshman chemistry is the killer course on almost all college campuses. It's also the course that's used to separate the students who'll go to med school from the wannabe doctors"</p>

<p>Mine wants to be a bio teacher in the NYC public school system. Is carrying above an A in bio right now, so there is still some hope. But the chem class is fully of pre-med folks who aren't freshman.</p>

43

<p>northstarmom, add o-chem to your list. many who survive the frosh year general chem hurdle stumble badly with o-chem. It is ironic, because o-chem does not typically ask for a lot of new ways of thinking. Rather, it fire hoses the students with lots of factual material (structures, mechanisms, reaction reagents and such) and then tops it off with a few thought problems (how would you make this structure...)</p>

<p>These science courses are taught in large lectures because most of the real learning happens with problem sets and such. In fact, much of the lectures may not even be critical (I should know...I skipped most of my o-chem lectures and still got a's) because the real learning occurs on one's own. And that may be what throws many students? They expect to be force fed?</p>

44

<p>"These science courses are taught in large lectures because most of the real learning happens with problem sets and such."</p>

<p>Strangely enough, ZG's bio and chem classes each have less than 30 students.</p>

45

<p>Hubris...</p>

<p>A whole 'nother paper!</p>

46

<p>My suggestion is to have your son go in with a rough draft to his TA or professor (which ever is appropriate and is grading the paper). My son does this regularly. His professors have always been glad to see him. They get to know him, see that he is making a decent effort, and he finds that they make corrections and suggestions. He writes a paper using this draft and so far has been successful. I think that he uses this method, rather than going to a writing lab, which should also be available. Keep in mind that the TA did say that the paper was not on topic, but also was poorly written, so I would submit a draft to this TA if at all possible before handing in that paper on Monday.</p>

47

<p>back on topic:</p>

<p>I remember well our first parents weekend at U. Chicago. Parents met with their kid's advisor who told us that our kids were about to get perhaps their first C, D or even F in their academic careers as the first humanities papers are handed back.</p>

<p>She went on to tell us not to panic, that this was normal as kids adjusted to new standards and expectations, and that these first papers had little bearing on the final grades. </p>

<p>It made me remember how often college profs drop the lowest grade or two AND often allow re-writes. The profs are there to teach, not to punish, and sometimes low grades are good wakeup calls.</p>

<p>hang in there and see if it gets better. our kids have a lot to learn as they leave the nest.</p>

48

<p>Does his TA know about the ADHD? </p>

<p>Sounds to me like the F with regrade is more a teaching moment than the TAs actual evaluation of the paper.</p>

<p>He wants your son to learn to do the assignment and this is a vivid way to ensure that happens. If he doesn't know about the ADHD however he might feel the kid is being insolent.</p>

<p>Office hours are in order. I bet this is quickly remedied and that this TA could actually become an advocate if your son shows humility, listens, and implements suggestions.</p>

49

<p>What does ADHD have to do with reading a question and writing to that question? Seems like you should be able to handle that without undue stress. You have days to think about.</p>

50

<p>In my experience ADHD can mean that in the process of choosing a topic you don't focus - and your inability to focus can mean you will convince yourself that a topic you can focus on that isn't assigned will be OK.</p>

51

<p>However, the student got top grades in high school and such stellar scores that he was a finalist for Presidential Scholar. It seems he can manage his ADHD well enough to have the capability to follow the guidelines in a college writing assignment.
(Speaking as a person with ADD who has sons with ADHD and ADD).</p>

52

<p>Like OP, my D with ADHD got a really disappointing grade on her first paper. It was about taking ritalin (a freshman seminar about drugs in society) so prof knew she was ADHD! barrons, ADHD with coexisting conditions related to processing, organization and the like has a LOT to do with writing. My D got 800 on writing SAT and 5 on Eng Lit AP exam, but struggles with writing even simple things all the time. In High School, she learned the formula for organizing papers and, to some degree, to anticipate the teachers'/graders' expectations, but college is taking it to a higher level and it will be a real challenge. My hope is that she will catch on to the higher expectations and manage to meet them.</p>

53

<p>I teach this material, and to me the F is harsh, but I read that others differ. I guess I'm a softie, but my typical grade in this situation is SEE ME and don't even give a grade until assignment is redone. I guess others feel the grade shows the seriousness of the situation.</p>

<p>I have found TA's to be among the most difficult graders, and the grading varies wildly from one TA to the next. Sometimes showing the paper to the prof. is in order. </p>

<p>If the paper really does merit that grade for being completely off topic I would not suggest writing center. I also have a son with ADD, and I think a thinking, not writing, problem is in order here. </p>

<p>Your son may not fully understand that a paper on honor and a paper on wrath are not the same thing. In his mind, if the assigned paper is on the Iliad and his paper is on the Iliad, this is the same thing. I try to get my students to differentiate between what I call "stream-of-consciousness-thinking" and analytic thinking. They are used to doing the former. If wrath reminds the student of honor, the student goes drifting along to honor as a subject. The way I get students to cure this tendency is to redraft topic as a question. Once the questions is devised, "How is the wrath of Achilles" etc, or "Does the wrath of Achilles," "Does Achilles regret his wrath,", "Is Achilles wrath justified? Is Agamemnon's?" "What ends Achilles wrath", and there are many more. </p>

<p>Organizing a paper around a question lets the young writer know if s(he) has fully dealt with the topic, on topic. A small outline with supportive points is also helpful. </p>

<p>The question need not appear in the finished paper because the paper is the answer to the question. </p>

<p>I agree with previous posters. This is the most important skill for a freshman to learn. I do, however, respectfully disagree. I think the grader's comments were out of line and unnecessarily hurtful. I'm sure this student is now intimidated.</p>

<p>I agree with whichever poster advised doing the paper immediately and then coming home for the weekend. TLC is in order IMO.</p>

<p>To poster who said D is emailing her paper to reporter father, I can't remember who this was. This is a very attractive trap (I should know, I've fallen into myself on several occasions) because it is a human tendency for a more experienced writer to edit the work of a young, less adept writer. This robs the young writer from learning form her/his teacher, and it blurs the line for students between what is and isn't their own work. I have had students tell me that if it was their ideas, it doesn't matter who does the actual writing. Suggestions, drawing someone's attention to difficulties, all okay. Out and out editing is not good. (And I have been on both sides of the process, as the parent and as the teacher.)</p>

54

<p>Sorry but I am skeptical about calling behavior that is typical of about half (or more) of the adult males I work with including myself a disease except in the most extreme cases. If he did that well in HS it seems it should be manageable on a short paper. I could understand being overwhelmed by a 25 page documented research paper the first time out but a 3 page one topic paper means take the opportunity for the Mulligan, thank the TA, and get on the stick. To quote Cher "Snap out of it!".</p>

55

<p>mythmom: I was the poster whose D emailed the paper to her dad last night. Perhaps I didn't clarify - he never changes things for her as far as content or gives her his own ideas/opinions. He simply will go through it looking for spelling or grammatical errors, and point them out to her to reevaluate. He has never rewritten papers for her - it is more of a cosmetic fix and as a teacher, I don't see anything wrong with that type of help. As a matter of fact, I often have him proofread my writing (obviously, though,not on this message board as I frequently go back and read things I've written and cring - LOL!)</p>

56

<p>mythmom, I read your post (#53), and I just wanted to say that you seem like the type of professor that I wish for my children. I think that your students are very fortunate to have you as their professor.</p>

57

<p>At Princeton, the honor code they make kids sign means that as a parent you actually cannot edit their work.</p>

58

<p>That's a family decision allie, but as one collegeprof poster wrote: be careful about over-infantilizing your college students. </p>

<p>My sons send me their best papers--after they get that prized grade from the professor.</p>

59

<p>The teacher asked a question. He did not answer the question. What possible grade could one receive besides failing? Zero? How does not answering a question merit any kind of passing grade? Would it have made any difference to put an "F" at the top of the paper, with a big smiley face? (That would have been a nicer way to put it.)</p>

<p>I think the teacher is being very nice in letting him resubmit the paper. I don't agree that the teacher was being too harsh. How is a "do over" harsh? The comments? Well, what else are you going to say to someone who didn't answer the question? </p>

<p>Somewhere along the line, someone is being kind to tell it like it is and give a second chance. Be brutally honest, but be forgiving. That sounds like what this teacher did.</p>

60

<p>"He simply will go through it looking for spelling or grammatical errors, and point them out to her to reevaluate. He has never rewritten papers for her - it is more of a cosmetic fix and as a teacher, I don't see anything wrong with that type of help. "</p>

<p>Assuming your D is in college, I think it's time to cut the cord and have her use her own resources including those at the campus' writing center. I used to teach college, and I suggested that students show their papers to each other and use the campus' writing center and professors' office hours, but I wouldn't have wanted them showing papers pregrading to their parents. I think college is a time for students to learn to do work independently -- virtually as independently as they would be doing work in the work world.</p>