Please demystify the "Sample lesson" situation

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Just wanted to represent as the parent of a student who did exactly zero sample lessons and got all the acceptances he’d most hoped for. It could be that jazz is different from classical, I don’t know. And USC’s guitarists study with more than one teacher (which has proved to be fantastic). </p>

<p>But we simply didn’t have time to make two rounds of trips. The audition trips did help my son prioritize his choices, and if there were one or two places he’d have knocked off after visiting earlier (had we done so), we still would’ve needed the visit to knock them off. And a visit is more expensive than an application fee. So that logic didn’t make a lot of sense to us.</p>

<p>Again, it may be different for guitarists. Just another perspective.</p>

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<p>Shreddermom, I really think it’s more for the student to gauge compatibility rather than to try to boost the likelihood of admission. However, though I didn’t do things this way, getting the lessons after the acceptances makes a good deal of sense, particularly if you already know that you’d prefer one school over another anyway.</p>

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<p>My D has been contacting professors directly with some variation of an email that her private teacher help her draft. The professors have all been very responsive so far, maybe because she is looking at conservatories and schools of music. One professor was even proactive enough to forward her information to the admissions office who then invited her to meet with an admissions counselor.</p>

<p>BTW, we’ve had to pay $150-$200 for one hour lessons with the professors. They have been very valuable though as they have provided feedback on technique to help her prepare for college audiitons. She’s also gotten a feeling from them about whether her level is in line with the students they accept.</p>

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<p>Just a question - do people actually take sample lessons with the professors at places like Curtis before they’re accepted because chances are you won’t get in? Or is it still acceptable?</p>

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<p>To qualify all this, I will say that trial lessons, while absolutely very important, do not always serve the function that students expect. A trial lesson will NOT demonstrate whether or not someone is a “good teacher.” It will NOT be a reliable indicator of how much you’ll like them in the long run. And it may not be representative of what lessons with them are usually like.</p>

<p>All that said, it is crucial to check on basic compatibility. If a teacher’s way of working doesn’t make sense to you at first, it’s possible that may never change.</p>

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<p>To further muddy the waters, son also scheduled his sample lessons along with a request to sit in on the Bass studio. He was able to schedule this at 4 of the schools. It gave him a good idea of the level of play and the culture of that particular studio/school. He was able to informally chat with the other bassists and get an insiders view of the school. So, if you are visiting anyway try to sit in on the studio class, orchestra rehearsal, etc.</p>

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<p>TickGrey, I’m not sure about what you mean in the second part of your question, but yes, people do take “sample” lessons or “play for” Curtis teachers. It depends on the teacher, of course.</p>

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<p>My D is a VP major and she did her sessions during her junior year. She found out that the teacher she hoped to study with had left his position with the school (also her 1st choice) just before audition season. Nevertheless, she applied anyway and found the perfect fit in said teacher’s replacement. After D’s audition there was completed, one of the panel members (the teacher she is with now) followed D out of the room and asked her if she was staying over that night and would she be available to “come back and work with her for a while that evening”? That was her way of determining if a student was able to take correction and apply it with a minimum of fuss, to hear her sing freely and without the constraints of audition rep and if their personalities would mesh. Year 3 begins next week and D adores her teacher!
Only once were we charged for a lesson and that came as a surprise since it that question had gone unanswered before. Just in case, I always sent D off to the lesson with a check in her possession!
A caveat, if I may- some teachers are terrible with e-mail, they just can’t/won’t master it and some have student “helpers” dealing with their electronic correspondence, so be cautious. For each lesson that we went to, I made sure that any correspondence with that school’s department and/or teacher was printed out and in a folder. As luck would have it, at one conservatory, the dept head was in a tizzy and terribly disorganized and had scheduled the lesson on a completely different day! There we were, having driven 400+ miles, and the woman was becoming confrontational with my D, saying that “She (Head) couldn’t be held responsible if students couldn’t keep track of things properly, etc” and was really carrying on in a most inappropriate manner. I heard this from the waiting area and stepped in, handing the woman the copy of the appointment confirmation, which originated from her very own e-mail. She had made the error, writing it down for the wrong day! Mistakes happen, but there was no excuse for her rudeness, which she never apologized for. She was able to locate the teacher and a hasty lesson was cobbled together, but didn’t allow my D any time to warm up at all, which was unsafe. Needless to say, D was not left with a favorable impression of that school!Oh, and that was also the school with the “last minute charge” for the lesson…
So, while it’s best for the student to deal with the prospective teacher, be prepared and in the vicinity until you’re sure that all is well. And it is well within the student’s rights to ask a potential teacher if he/she is contemplating leaving a position at that school or are they certain (relatively, at least) that they will be there for the entire 4 years. It’s one thing to pick up and transfer after a year or two to follow a teacher, but to leave as a junior or senior can mean loss of credits, etc. The kids get through these lessons easier than we, the parents,do!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the great responses! I think at the issue may definitely have been with speaking to someone other than the instructors directly. The schools were USC THORNTON and CCM along with one other which I cannot recall. I emailed Belmont teachers and got some nice replies so we’re on our way! Cannot wait until the day I am looking back and helping others rather than asking all these questions and going through the grinder! Of course, it must be tough basing a decision after visiting with one teacher when there are several at each school. Luck of the draw, I guess.</p>

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<p>I’m probably misreading you K8sDad, and it’s really K8, not you, who is making those contacts, right? </p>

<p>One thing that worked well for us was that D3 opened an email account dedicated to college applications and we shared the password. I freely admit that there were times when I would respond to an email posing as my daughter (if, for instance, someone needed an answer right away and she was at school) and that she wanted me to proofread and double-check her emails.</p>

<p>Apologies if I misunderstood. :)</p>

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<p>K8sdad, I’m sure teachers at USC Thornton do give sample lessons - hopefully contacting them directly will prove more fruitful. Here is a directory that may help:</p>

<p><a href=“USC Faculty and Staff Directory”>USC Faculty and Staff Directory;

<p>And stradmom, my son also allowed me the password to his college app-dedicated email account, and there were a couple of times I wrote emails for him dealing with scheduling tours and visits, etc. I remember this arrangement was crucial while he was away on a senior retreat and also while participating in a jazz competition.</p>

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<p>OK, now fearing that somehow I ruined my daughter’s life, why is it bad for a parent to contact schools to get information? My daughter is taking all AP & honors classes, doing voice lessons, theater, and working 2 part time jobs (when she’s not volunteering at church). She overbooks every aspect of her life (like her mom) so I’m pre-emptively doing this stuff for her. Is it really necessary to make it seem like she’s doing all of this?</p>

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<p>No, you did not ruin our daughter’s life. It is optimal for them to contact themselves, but I did it for DD and not under her screen name. She did fine, was accepted into great programs with good money. she has graduated and learned to do it all on her own now. At some point it would be good if she did the follow-up contact. I think for undergrads they know parent’'s have to be involved with logistics.</p>

<p>However, if you are not getting a good response, the email from her to the professors may improve it.</p>

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<p>In a word, yes. </p>

<p>Some other words:
Perception
Competence
Helicopter parent
Responsibility
Training wheels for adulthood</p>

<p>Words I kind of like:
Facilitate
Support
Behind the Scenes
Secretary</p>

<p>Analogy du jour:
It’s Audition day.
Kid is in the room doing all the hard work herself and getting all the glory.
You’re outside in the hall equally nervous holding the coat, bag and extra shoes.
Kid couldn’t have done it without you.
But … it’s her day.</p>

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<p>K8sdad, I don’t think you ruined your daughter’s life at all! Especially with a question like trial lessons. I think parents frequently do make those kinds of calls. </p>

<p>However, what you don’t want… is for your daughter to MISS an opportunity to make a good impression. And contact with an actual teacher (as opposed to the lady in the office who schedules tours, etc.) is one of those opportunities.</p>

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<p>stradmom, lol. </p>

<p>K8sDad, in the future you might want to ghostwrite these emails (with her approval, which I’ll bet she will give happily.) Your support is invaluable to her. A lot of parents help their kids with the secretarial stuff (some don’t and some kids won’t allow it, but many are grateful for the extra support.) I know one mom who was chastised by a teacher when she called him during the daytime to arrange a lesson (her son was unable to call during school hours, the only time to reach him.) He ended up at a different conservatory, and who knows if the mom’s call had anything to do with that. It’s all very tricky. Sometimes one feels that one is playing a complicated game without being allowed to see the rulebook!</p>

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<p>I’ll confess. I made all the contacts to arrange sample lessons. Why? I did it by phone calls for the most part. My kid was occupied 16 hours a day, which made return phone calls an issue. Second of all, I knew our schedule and what was possible and what wasn’t. All in all, it just seemed more efficient. When we went to the lessons, I (or my husband) sat in on them. I didn’t say anything or react to anything unless I was asked by the teacher, but for a variety of reasons, I felt that it was important for me to observe the teacher as well as my son. (Some of his sample lessons were experienced at summer programs and we were not involved in those.) </p>

<p>I was pretty low key through the process. Son had an excellent experience with his sample lessons and auditions. So don’t lose too much sleep K8sDad. We were NOT involved in grad school sample lessons and auditions except to provide financial support for travel.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone should should feel guilty about helping their children with any part of the college admission process. Let’s face it - we are on this board to help our children and when we help others as well, all the better. Some high school seniors have their act totally together and can handle juggling 7 AP courses with a myriad of other things and still be able to apply to colleges on their own. They are very talented multi-taskers and are not the norm. That is the way they are made with a fierce drive and a need to do it themselves - bravo to them! Others need guidance and I’m sure every parent on this board is willing to help when their child asks - it doesn’t mean you are a helicopter parent or that your child is not a talent and is no indicator of how they will do in college or beyond. Be proud of being there for your children - don’t let anyone make you feel otherwise!</p>

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<p>I don’t think it is ‘killing the child’ to give them help with this process, I don’t think anyone is commenting when parents help with the process or ‘fill in the cracks’ and so forth. What I believe and I suspect others are driving at is that it is important that parents not drive everything, not do everything from deciding which schools to apply to to what teacher to study with, or do everything. Among other things, as overloaded as kids are at that age they need to start learning to take responsibility for themselves, to handle the things they will as an adult starting in college.</p>

<p>And yes, there is also the impression it gives schools, while admissions is a fairly anonymous process, from what admissions people and teachers have told me they also deal with a lot of helicopter parents, and it can generate a negative vision of the applicant (that said, it probably takes a lot for them to notice such things, if you as parent ask questions occassionally NBD; if the parent is doing everything, they may notice).</p>

<p>I see this all the time in my weird journey as a parent, I see kids in the music programs who are in their latter teens (15-18) where you would think they were still in suzuki school, parents sit in the lessons, recording everything, ask the teacher questions and so forth, and almost everything the kid does in the program, the parent is involved, fight with the teachers over what is being taught, etc…and when it comes time for college, the parent often chooses the schools, the teachers, goes with them to auditions and drives the whole process (including, as I have been told, getting into arguments at the school trying to sit in on the actual audition, etc etc). </p>

<p>Obviously, these are extreme examples but they do serve a point (what happens to these kids when they are actually on their own). I guess my take is that handling as much of this stuff as they are able is part of the process of learhing and growing up, as much as the teaching in the school will:).</p>

<p>As far as sample lessons go, I would be really hard pressed to try and argue that it directly increases the chance of admission, plenty of kids go to schools where they have never had sample lessons and get in. About the only edge it gives I suspect is that the teacher has seen the student, and if they remember them by audition time, it might make them more willing to check off on the magic box “I am willing to teach this student, if they get in” , but that doesn’t guarantee admit, only that you have at least one teacher willing to teach you, which is as far as I can tell needed for admission to most music programs. </p>

<p>And no, one lesson will not tell you long term if the teacher is a good teacher or will work out for the student, that takes more then a few lessons, but on the other hand it eliminates teachers that you have a lesson with them, and sit there scratching your head saying “what the heck is he doing?” and so forth. There is a downside to this, you could also reject someone who might turn out to be a great teacher, because that day the teacher could have been having a bad day and was gruff and short and seemed like a jerk…whereas someone who doesn’t do the sample lesson, gets this guy as a teacher, might find them to be great:).</p>

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<p>My son is not a performance major, and the phenom of a “sample lesson” still assisted him enormously in his junior year - i’d say a 10. We had wanted to tour a particular som to get a feel for the music tech program, and the delightful department head (and teacher) phoned us after an email inquiry and invited us to sit in on a freshman and senior year studio – one was computer music composition, the other a rather experimental digital ensemble – the day before an upcoming audition day so that we could also benefit from
the tours. </p>

<p>It was a great fit for him, and really helped him later determine where he wanted to be, and why. I really liked the transparency of the process. I did not find all schools equally accommodating on PRE acceptance “sample lessons” but perhaps in this case this particular school was familiar with the ensemble/composition competitons/private instructors he’d had. In his initial request, he’d included (at my behest) a short summary of his musical background to date. I’m not certain he’d done so at some of the other schools, but at least two of them gave his work a listen (recorded) and invited him for a pre-meet. </p>

<p>So my suggestion when asking for a meeting pre-acceptance, eg in junior year, is to include regional or program accomplishments and background in the request letter, which I believe helps the teacher know it may be a fruitful session.</p>