<p>DD has received her final FA/scholarship packages. Like many, she is seriously pondering her choices and we are trying to make certain that she has all the information she needs for a decision. We can handle all of the choices below with some significant sacrifices (except 1) without tapping into retirement or home equity, assuming no income changes or serious emergencies (not necessarily a good plan). I noted work-study since that may take time away from study and/or campus club involvement. Net cost includes travel, books, insurance and additional miscellaneous expenses. DD does plan on continuing her studies after undergraduate although the course of her career is pretty unclear at this time. Further, she is definitely not interested in various STEM, CS or MBA type paths at this time (which might be interpreted as personally fulfilling but not lucrative careers).</p>
<p>She has narrowed down her choices to four colleges (although we, her parents, have a narrower viewpoint), listed alphabetically below:</p>
<p>Mount Holyoke: Net annual cost - 14540 (0 loan debt)
Pomona: Net annual cost - 50066 (Total 4 year loan debt – 16264) (Work-study funds)
Scripps: Net Annual cost - 46590 (Total 4 year loan debt – 2360)
Wellesley: Net annual cost - 58988 (Total 4 year loan debt – 51952) (Work-study funds)</p>
<p>We have looked at every ranking and other list we can find to try to help differentiate schools. Potential majors include (but are not limited to) English, History, Foreign Languages, Linguistics, International Relations, Cognitive Science, and Psychology. I have had significant difficulty figuring out how to assess the relative strengths of the various departments in LAC’s since that may be relevant. Further, all of the listed schools are part of consortiums that allow cross-registration to other schools that may have stronger departments in some of these areas.</p>
<p>I am really looking for input from parents and recent graduates that have been faced with similar choices with a “why you made the choice” and “would you make the same choice today” as well as any thoughts for differential acceptance to graduate study programs (not knowing the major!), as well as any other pertinent comments. Thank you so much for your input – I have read just about every thread on this sort of decision that I located and still feel conflicted for various reasons.</p>
<p>Sorry, I am a little confused by your post. Do you plan to take about loans beyond the federal loans if she attends Wellesley (a total of $51,952 over four years)? And she would only take out a total of $2,360 in loans over all four years at Scripps?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The STEM/CS/MBA paths ARE lucrative careers. Are you saying she likely will go down a less lucrative path? I think based on the majors she is interested that probably is what you are saying.</p>
<p>Assuming I am reading your post correctly, she would certainly want to limit her debt from undergraduate based on her possible career paths. That would probably knock Wellesley off the list if I am reading your numbers correctly.</p>
<p>All of her choices are ranked within the top 40 LACs in the US. She can get a great education at any of them (both of my kids applied to and were admitted to Mt. Holyoke, and one attends a Claremont consortium school now, so I am pretty familiar with them). There is nothing “wrong” with any of her choices. Given that, she probably would want to take a very hard look at Mount Holyoke given the huge cost differential from the other schools. Scripps would give her access to the full range of consortium classes at Claremont (more easily than the 5 College Consortium Mt. Holyoke is in due to transportation issues), so that would make it easier for her to have more class choices in any of the majors she ends up selecting. So I guess if it were my kid, I would be encouraging her to look at Scripps as a second option.</p>
<p>I think the best gift you can give your D is to graduate debt free. That allows her so much more flexibility in terms of her next career moves. My D is a graduating senior and is pursuing low paid internships in fields she’s interested in prior to going to grad school. She couldn’t do that with a ton of debt.</p>
<p>I’d decide between Scripps and MoHo, and have her get an on-campus job in addition. My kid got a very coveted summer internship because the her manager at dining services where she washed dishes gave her a great recommendation.</p>
<p>They are all great schools. But if you can’t really differentiate between the schools in your own minds, and your D likes Mt. Holyoke, and she can graduate debt free from Mt. Holyoke, than Mt. Holyoke seems like the obvious choice.</p>
<p>You and she may want to browse the course catalogs and schedules of the schools and their cross-registration partners. For cross-registration purposes, also take a look at the convenience of doing so, both from a commuting standpoint and from an administrative standpoint (i.e. are there administrative limits on cross-registration, are the schools on different academic calendars, etc.).</p>
<p>However, Mount Holyoke’s much lower price is a compelling argument in favor of it if it is not a clear loser otherwise in the comparison. For both you and your daughter, the school’s price being comfortably affordable instead of being at the very edge of affordability means that there is a substantial buffer against adverse family financial events (including some which may not result in better financial aid to compensate). But do check for renewal GPA requirements of any merit scholarships.</p>
<p>I’m confused by your numbers - but it seems like Mt. Holyoke is the obvious choice, unless there is some barrier you haven’t mentioned.</p>
<p>The colleges are pretty much the same academically. It will be easier to meet and socialize with males at Pomona/Scripps. </p>
<p>But from the numbers it looks like your family does not qualify for need-based and that your family can afford to pay roughly $45K a year for college – leaving two affordable options on the table-- Scripps & Mt. Holyoke.</p>
<p>There is no reason that I can see for your family to take the high debt load that would be required for the other two. </p>
<p>I’m guessing that someone in your family is wrestling with concerns of US News rankings? Is it the daughter or the parents who are focused on whether it is worth going into debt for the perceived prestige of Wellesley?</p>
<p>The most obvious point of differentiation is 3 are all women’s, 1 is not. Secondly 2 are east coast, 2 are west coast.
How does your daughter feel about these factors? </p>
<p>I’m not clear whose debt we’re talking about here. Will you absorb the debt or do you expect your daughter to pay you back? If the former, then the decision on how much cost you want to bear is really yours. If the latter, then it’s your daughter’s. Either way, $52,000 seems on the high side for undergraduate debt, but $16,000 is, to me, manageable.</p>
<p>Our family doesn’t have personal experience with any of these, but quite a few kids from my son’s high school choose Pomona, Scripps and Holyoke every year. (Barnard is also a popular pick, but for some reason we seldom see Wellesley.)</p>
<p>I would say – and of course this is anecdotal – that the Pomona/Scripps kids are more outgoing and energetic and the Holyoke kids more introspective. Although they all attract bright, capable kids, from our school some of the tippy top students – both academically and in other accomplishments – chose Pomona, some in lieu of highly selective universities.</p>
<p>I really appreciate the input and sorry for any confusion in my initial post. This list is actually narrowed down from a list of 10 colleges.</p>
<p>Yes, I fully expect my D to have a career path that does NOT pay particularly well. </p>
<p>Based on the numbers, we DID rule out Wellesley however I left it in here since my D was very attached to that college and it is somewhat illustrative of the vast differences we are facing. She is equally attached to Pomona. All loan debts up to federal limits would belong to my D.</p>
<p>@calmom My D is at a school where all of the kids with her stats and GPA are “Ivy” bound and she went against the research university trend to apply to the LACs. Now she is feeling the pressure from her peers to choose based on rankings and prestige while we are forcing her to look at her long-term goals and probable graduate school path. I agree that Holyoke is the obvious choice; but, we want to be sure we aren’t missing anything in this decision process. </p>
<p>@ucbalumnus The financially prudent choice is clearly Holyoke (and the GPA requirements are very reasonable). I also felt that it had very caring, involved professors and the campus is stunning. D’s primary concerns are being adequately intellectually stimulated by fellow students and moving on into graduate programs successfully. She is very attracted to small class sizes and the personal relationships with professors that this engenders. There is some difference between the colleges in class size and student to professor ratio although I don’t think it is particularly significant. Because Holyoke is so financially reasonable, it also means we can support other opportunities and allow her to pursue low-paid and/or unpaid internships.</p>
<p>@intparent Why did your D choose a Claremont over Holyoke? </p>
<p>@momrath D is the first kid from her high school to be accepted into any of the Claremonts. The “feel” of the other kids on campus is very important to her. I find your comment that the Holyoke kids may be more introspective very interesting. She is a member of the omnipresent Facebook group for each of these admitted classes and notes that there is a difference in feel between the groups but that may not be representative of the campus as a whole.</p>
<p>I realize it seems obvious (to parents); but, there is a lot of school pressure to choose based on perceived prestige, including from the GC and teachers. We will peruse course catalogs in depth over spring break! (As well as revisiting two of the colleges.) Thank you for the input!</p>
<p>The “prestige” race exists pretty much senior year --by Christmas after high school graduation no one cares anymore and the GCs, teachers and high school counselors are now chasing the new senior class. Kids choose “their” college for pretty random reasons. I agree with most that if your D can’t differentiate to the point of having a strong first choice money is the next most important factor when colleges are equal in ability to give a great education…the costs last far longer in life than her high school classmates perceptions.</p>
<p>I am a Wellesley alum, and my S was accepted at Pomona, but did not attend. With the financial difference stated here, I would still choose Pomona over Scripps. My order–with no financial difference-- would be Wellesley/Pomona, then MHC, then Scripps.</p>
<p>But given the incredibly good deal at MHC, I would definitely choose MHC. Especially if your D wants to be free to choose a field that she loves that does not offer high starting salaries. Freedom to follow your path is a wonderful thing.</p>
<p>LAC grad here. I attended a NE LAC (not one on your list but very similar) and s’s looked at Pomona, Harvey Mudd and CMC at the Claremont consortium. All points are valid. Agree that if she doesn’t have a huge preference for east vs west coast, then graduating debt free is the way to go, especially when targeting majors that might involve grad school or might be less likely to directly to lead to lucrative job opportunities.</p>
<p>Perhaps a brief lesson on personal finances about how large $44,000 * 4 = $176,000 is, particularly in the context of the expected pay levels she may find after graduation, is in order, since it appears that she is not inherently inclined toward frugality (most people are not).</p>
<p>Sounds like she got a merit award at MHC. That being the case, the other schools that don’t give merit are not going to increase her award…Wellesley gives no merit.</p>
<p>We live nearer to MHC. Does your daughter like somewhat remote locations? Or does she prefer the city or larger town that the other schools would offer?</p>
<p>Financially, MHC is certainly the best option, and as others have noted, would be debt free. This is a particularly good gift for someone intending to work in a lower salary field. </p>
<p>Isn’t MHC part of the consortium of colleges in that part of Massachusetts? </p>
<p>OP, my D is at Harvey Mudd. To her the very top criteria for her college search was to be in an environment with the smartest students she could find. She did some accepted student visits at her final top choices and felt the most at home at Mudd. She is a very, very happy freshman now. She knows 2 friends from high school at Scripps, and the valedictorian of her senior class is at Pomona. And all of them like their schools very much as well. Besides the very smart kids and strength in STEM subjects at Mudd, other things she likes about the Claremont Consortium:</p>
<ul>
<li>That she can take very easily classes across the other colleges, especially for the secondary non-STEM concentration Mudd students undertake. She hasn’t decided between studio art or some kind of concentration in poetry – but the course offerings are quite rich as she looks across the Claremont College course catalogs.</li>
<li>Because the consortium brings together a larger volume of students than a typical LAC, they are able to field more clubs and activities with a robust population. She loves Quiz Bowl and fencing, and there are reasonably sized, serious clubs for both in the consortium that draw students from all the colleges.</li>
<li>The weather. We live in a state that got whacked hard by the polar vortex this year. She kept texting me pictures of palm trees and flowers when the news reported our chilly state.</li>
</ul>
<p>My older D came closest to attending MHC. This was about six years ago – they gave her no merit aid (they gave out less back then, I think), and we didn’t apply for need based aid. She ended up picking a school that she really liked that gave her a good merit scholarship. But if the money had been even, I think she would have selected MHC.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think this unlikely given the difference in rankings between the schools. Now showing Scipps the MHC offer might be worth doing. But you don’t want to come right out and ask them to “match” the offer. You want to let them know that the “cost of attendance” is significantly lower at MHC for your D and that you wonder if they could please “review” your FA offer to see if there is any way to improve it. If you have any additional information on financials that you think is relevant that did not come out in the paperwork you did, then let them know that as well. Medical expenses, downturn in small business, trust that shows on paperwork but legally can’t be accessed until a later time, etc. You can send them an email and ask them. Have the MHC offer letter scanned and ready to send them if they request it, which they hopefully would request. And know that any improvement for freshman year might not carry on to the subsequent years. But it really can’t hurt to ask; I have done this a couple of times with my kids. Once it worked, and once it didn’t. </p>
<p>You really need to get your D’s headspace away from the “prestige hounds” at her school. They aren’t paying and they aren’t actually attending the school. There are plenty of kids who attend prestigious schools and are unhappy in the end. Both my kids were able to turn off the ‘prestige sirens’ and make choices based on what felt best to them and worked for us financially. And it turned out great for them. Many of their friends who picked colleges more based on "name’ than anything else aren’t as happy, and some ended up transferring from their schools later.</p>
<p>It would come down to Mount Holyoke and Pomona for me without taking finances into consideration. When loans enter the picture, Mount Holyoke becomes the clear favorite. Two of the limitations of a small women’s college, limited course offerings and lack of social interaction with non-females, will be mitigated through the Five College Consortium. There’s no downside significant enough to make Scripps or Pomona preferable, unless your daughter has always wanted to go there. In any case, Pomona and Wellesley look unaffordable.</p>
<p>Honestly, just put your foot down and tell your daughter you’re not going to compromise your financial situation and allow her to go into debt that is easily avoidable just so she could brag to her classmates about going to a highly ranked college. Chances are she will fall in love with Mount Holyoke within a week of arriving there, and won’t even remember most of the kids whose opinion she’s worried about now by the time she graduates.</p>
<p>On the subject of grad school, I think Pomona, Wellesley and Mount Holyoke are all really good at getting people into grad school. It is my impression that Scripps is slightly less successful at that, but the differences are probably negligible. In any case, getting into grad school will not be a problem for her if she does well in her classes and develops good relationships with her professors.</p>
<p>Also, keep,the school personnel OUT of your decision making. ditto the friends and extended family. These are all excellent choices, and including school “bragging rights” in the mix should not be allowed.</p>
<p>My DD hated the Claremont Colleges when we visited. Sample of one, I know. They are not for everyone. </p>
<p>Has your daughter visited these colleges? What does SHE want to do? Can you ignore the financial differences between MHC and the others? </p>
<p>Presumably, she applied to all of these with the intention of attending if accepted. Is there a reason why she would NOT choose MHC over the others?</p>
<p>In terms of logistics, not all consortia are created equal. There is a difference between spending hours on a bus and walking to the next class. </p>
<p>One needs a very stable financial situation to simply multiply the first year by a factor of four. Work study is never guaranteed and the EFC might change. </p>
<p>@Ghostt, I don’t know why you would consider Scripps inferior to MHC in academics or post-graduation placement, I think it is not, I think it is actually slightly better. But as I noted in my first post, all these schools are ranked in the top 40 LACs, and the OPs daughter would get a perfectly fine education at any of them.</p>
<p>Friends of my daughters seemed to prefer attending Holyoke and Smith in the college consortium, over attending Scripps and the Claremont consortium. ( the students attending Amherst didnt seem to make as much use of the opportunity to attend other schools)
My impression, is that it was related to social opportunities.</p>
We live in a state that got whacked hard by the polar vortex this year. She kept texting me pictures of palm trees and flowers when the news reported our chilly state.</li>