Please help a hopeless Asian girl. Is it worth shooting for an Ivy or T20?

Chance Me / Match Me!
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(shamelessly copy-pasted from my reddit r/chanceme post, sorry!!)

Demographics (uh oh): Asian female, New Jersey, upper middle class, mid public school (single digits to ivies, <20 to t20s per year), no hooks

Intended Major(s): economics (and/or international relations when offered)

ACT/SAT/SAT II: 1600

UW/W GPA and Rank: 4.0 UW, tied for rank 1/500

Coursework: 7 AP’s junior, taking 6 senior

Awards: NSLI-Y scholar, DECA intl finalist, regional science fair thing, natl merit/ap thing probably

Extracurriculars (oh lawd):

  1. Model UN (VP), DECA (officer), cum laude society (tutoring head): all self explanatory, really.
  2. translation stuff: went from manually translating/captioning vtubers to working with CS genius friends on this AI transcription and translation bot/program thing I don’t fully understand.
  3. linguistics stuff: made my own language with an evolutionary history, writing system, vocabulary and all. currently translating some random works into it.
  4. political stuff: kinda vague to avoid doxx but ended up as a youth communications/organizing lead and worked on a presidential, senate, and house primary campaign.
  5. political stuff :sparkles:but local​:sparkles:: helped a classmate campaign to get his mother elected onto the school board, get board to form steering committee on changing start times, and working with local parent group to advocate increased state funding for district
  6. work stuff: i work at a panera bread (free sandwiches :drooling_face:) and as a poll worker sometimes.
  7. no idea what to call this: aggregate social media posts on spicy geopolitical events (hong kong/kazakhstan/belarus/venezuela/george floyd protests; armenia-azerbaijan, tigray, and russia-ukraine war, etc.) to document developments, :sparkling_heart:human rights violations​:sparkling_heart:, and :sparkles:war crimes​:sparkles: .

Essays/LORs/Other (oh the humanity): probably pretty mid, tbh. i’m quite shy so my teachers don’t know me too well.

Schools (surely this is satire?!?!): imagine if someone’s asian immigrant mom scrolled through the US news t50 and picked, out of there, 10 schools not to apply to, and then her asian immigrant family offered to pay only for a school on that list. I’m literally not allowed to apply to a safety school and I’m told the fallback plan is “just take a gap year and try again smh.”

tldr, I guess: I’m mainly interested in if I’ve got any shot at ivies/t20, because honestly at this point I don’t know if it’s even worth applying with my profile—good enough-ish stats but incredibly below-mid ec’s and devastating demographics and all. Career-wise I’ve already committed a cardinal sin in the eyes of my family by electing not to pursue becoming either a neurosurgeon or software developer, so I’m left only with finance, where prestige is kinda bottlenecking my ambitions of being miserable in an office cubicle instead of miserable, homeless, and disowned in a storage unit.

Am I only furthering my delusion of potentially salvaging an already hopeless and irreparable life trajectory or are the chances a drunk AO takes me off the waitlist in August high enough that I might as well apply anyway? Was losing all hope, confidence, and self-esteem upon meeting some stacked Lawrenceville legacy rich kids the correct emotional response or only an insight into my fundamental laziness and uselessness? I don’t know, but please be honest because I don’t wanna waste my time giving myself false hope if I’m already doomed. Thank you!

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Not sure what you are saying - and I laugh at the kids that think they will be Doxed. I think colleges have better things to do than to look at someone on the CC and eliminate them.

So are you saying there’s 40 schools in the top 50 on your list?

It’s hard to tell your ECs - but sounds like you have a job at Panera and you’ve created a language (is that right)?

Yes, you have a chance - at any college in the country.

I caution you on US News - there’s several lists. If you’re looking at the national universities, you’re missing the LACs.

With a 4.0 and 1600, not only could you go for free or dirt cheap at some state flagships but you could potentially score a great scholarship at a top LAC (Washington & Lee) and at a great school in SMU. For IR, there’s lots of great schools - in addition to the obvious around DC (not all are top 50), look at Indiana Hamilton Lugar School.

I know wnat your folks said. It’s too bad - but - yes, you have a chance at your top 50 but there’s also wonderful IR schools not. btw- pretty much every flagship in the country has kids like you - regardless of rank.

But you claim your recs and essay won’t be great so…that’s not a good start. Make a resume, talk to your teachers, have them learn what you’re about.

btw - if you’re not successful, the gap year for sake of reapplying will be a waste. A gap year is fine if you enhance your application - but you would take one just to re apply and that won’t work.

There’s always schools you can get in last minute - but focus on your essay, connecting with teachers and the top 50 is widespread - so a school like Brandeis, etc. should be an in.

Good luck.

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Good chance. Make sure your teachers get to know you. Make a brag sheet and give it to your teachers so they know what to write for you. Don’t be shy, and don’t hold back. Tell them what aspects about you they should focus on – tell them nicely. Ask them for advice so that they feel invested in your success. Tell them where you are applying and what your dreams are. I wrote a 6 page brag sheet about my kid – our school requests this of parents so that teachers don’t have to guess what to write about. Also give this to your GC who has to write for you. Spend a lot of time on the essays – they should be authentic and show very vividly some aspect of your personality that won’t be captured in LORs. The AO should read the essay and think we need this kid on campus this fall. Start the essays now. It is already time. You should aim at the very top. With your resume, I would have told my kid to shotgun the top 20.

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You have a great chance at t20s (and I rarely say this). Your essays, if you write like your post, will be very strong, you are a very good writer. You will need to edit out, though, your lack of self esteem :-).

I do think it’s good, if possible, to think outside the box, so consider focusing on schools out of the northeast, or where they are looking for women or people of Asian descent.

Finally, I came from an immigrant family where I also rejected the choices of doctor or engineer, so, like you, I settled on Plan C of prestigious careers – law school – where I got in to a T3 school, but really disliked it. I practiced for a few years then quit. Consider careers other than finance if you don’t love finance – that’s a grinding job, and if your heart’s not in it, you’ll be miserable.

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The Ivies and the Top 20 schools are all very different. One application won’t fit all. Many of these schools admit huge parts of their classes from ED. Pick out the place you fit best to apply ED and give it your best shot. Maybe pick a school where you are free to change/explore other majors in case you decide to pursue your public policy/poli sci interests. Can you apply to Rutgers as a safety even if you have to do it on the down low? Rice might be a good fit for you and you are not locked into a major.

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Yes you have a shot at top schools. Apply and see. But if it were me, I would apply to one school that you like where you have a chance of getting just about a free ride, and wouldn’t depend on parent support to attend college.

Applying to the same top colleges after a gap year is likely to get you the same rejections you got the first time…if that happens.

Which of the top schools are you considering.

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Agree with most of above. Take a shot, but be realistic and don’t worry about the things you can’t control. You’re at the top of your class at a school that sends kids to top schools each year. That’s something. Have you discussed your plan with your GC? You should. Craft a smart list and strategy that highlights your strengths. Are you a full pay? That will help at some places, especially if on a wait list.

Going into this without safeties is foolish. The fall-back plan you mention equally so and will waste a year of your life unless you do something significant between April and October when you have to reapply - not a lot of time. Moreover, it will be more work to get all your HS rec. letters after you’ve been gone for a year.

You have a great chance at some T50s. I think you have a good chance at some T25s, but no unhooked kid is a lock. Good luck. Be smart. Sometimes luck is the residue of design.

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I didn’t notice the gap year comment – should not do a gap year. There won’t be any benefit for you. You will compete with the next year’s batch. A year is precious. You can take a gap year after getting in if you want. For example Princeton sends 30-40 kids out on an expenses paid gap year to do social service outside the country once you get in. But that is a decision for later. Ideally gap years should not be seen as costless. They should be seen as a year of lost income. And if grad school is the intent, then it will delay entering the workforce by one more year in addition to grad school. You may still choose to do it, but the costs should be carefully assessed.

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Focus on the things that you can control,

  1. Short listing: figure out what you actually want from college. With so many voices around you it can be hard to hear your own. Look around for programs/courses you would enjoy, and use that to figure out target schools. Figure out which Ivies / T20s click for you, and prioritize those. At the beginning, keep your research to yourself, and look broadly: this is you figuring out you. Think out of the box: would a course such as Psychology, Philosophy and Linguistics at Oxford suit you? Nobody can nay-say Oxford as a name brand, and you could go many directions from there. You can (if you want, which you probably don’t) get to Goldman Sachs from there- and a whole lot of other places.

  2. LoRs: As @neela1 said, you need a brag sheet- but to build a good one you have to have figured out how you are framing your application. Think about what elements of you you want them to highlight, and give specific examples of your work or classroom participation to back it up. You may not be buddies with your teachers, but it is unlikely that the top student in your year has escaped their notice.

  3. Essays: there is no excuse for a star student to not have strong essays! Write about things you genuinely care about, not what you think will impress AOs. One thing about Oxford/the UK is that the essay is essentially about why you want to study the course you are applying to, and why you are a good candidate for it.

  4. Nobody can actually stop you from applying where you want to (incl safeties), unless you have no access at all to cash for the applications fee. Whether they will pay the tuition is another question.

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Love your post. Very refreshing writing and sort of self-satire. Your essays should be great. I think you have a great chance . I have come to know situations like yours with parents only wanting certain schools and careers. I hope that can change. Think about some top LAC’s which are “little Ivies” (google) and prestigious enough for your parents (one hopes). Apply to your top choices and maybe have some diversity in those choices, meaning Ivy, little Ivy (for your parents) and then any school you like.

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U.S. News does not provide a general top-50 ranking, of course. However, by the definition you appear to be using, you will have 40 schools from which to choose, of which some may be only moderately challenging with respect to admission for a student with your academic record.

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I think that you are competitive for any university. Whether you will get accepted to a university at the “Harvard, MIT, Stanford,…” level is very hard to predict. You are certainly competitive, but so are something like 80-85% of the other applicants.

I got my master’s degree at Stanford. The other students in the same program were from all over the place. Many had come from in-state public schools (with many also having some work experience). I can only recall one university that had sent more than two people (who I knew) into the same program. Do you want to guess what it was? It was Rutgers. Being in-state with your superb stats should make it both safe and affordable for you. You do not need to attend a “top 20” university for your bachelor’s degree to get into a “top 20” or even “top 3” (or top 1) program for your master’s degree or for some other graduate program.

One wild thought occurred to me: If you want to study international relations, it would not be completely crazy to consider schools outside of the US. Admissions is very stats-oriented in Canada, which suggests that both Toronto and McGill would be very likely for you with your great stats. US News does put Toronto in the “top 20” on a worldwide basis. Living for four years in Montreal would be quite interesting, and give you at least some international flavour.

There are also some top LACs which would be very good for economics or international relations.

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Tufts is good for international relations. Look up the Fletcher School…their grad school for international affairs.

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Not sure if you saw this: The Best International Relations Schools in the World – Foreign Policy

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Is Georgetown on your list?

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Your stats sound similar to an Asian NJ, NMF girl I know who is starting Barnard in the fall. She applied ED, which may have helped. Good luck.

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I’m going to urge caution in doing 6 APs in one year. I doubt any college will make a significant distinction with 13 APs over 12 or even 11. Unless you are able to maintain equally high grades in all your six AP classes, you run the risk of damaging your application for no real benefit. You aren’t looking for college credit with these exams if you’re applying to tippy top schools.

You are aiming very high and there will be an expectation that you will continue your extracurricular activities. You are also taking a class called College Applications 101 and you honestly need great essays in order to have a real shot. Ho hum essays won’t cut the mustard at the most selective schools and you will be writing a LOT of them. They are very time consuming.

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Your personality shines through in your writing. It was fun to read. I imagine admissions officers will also notice you.

But you’re right. The odds are stacked against you. Coming from a public HS, even with shining stats is no guarantee. Compared to the well heeled legacy kids from Lville, you will have a disadvantage. My son was one of those kids, so I can empathize with you. This doesn’t mean, however, that all is lost.

Your best chance of getting accepted into a T20/Ivy is in the early round. You probably already know that odds during a non-binding EA round is less impactful vs binding ED. Of the Ivy league, only Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown have ED. Yale, Harvard and Princeton have EA. But even applying EA will boost your chances.

Also take a look at schools like UChicago, Vanderbilt, Emory, Gtown. You would fit in quite well there. The placements into Finance rival some of the top ivies.

You might consider a two pronged strategy: apply binding ED, and throw in an EA app to Chicago. If you get deferred during ED, then you could switch your Chicago app to EDII. Or you could apply to Vanderbilt/Emory during EDII. The RD round is the least predictable, and in recent years has been tough for Asians.

Not sure the Gap year and reapplication would help. Reason is that you’d essentially have to start application process in October, which is only a few months into your “gap”. In order for the gap year to be meaningful, you almost have to do two years. But taking a gap year would allow you to apply to Columbia GS, which is much less competitive.

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