Please help dd choose: Bowdoin/ Wes/ Hamilton/ Vassar/ Colby...

Parents Forum
1

<p>My dd asked for the parents' input and I put this at the end of an old thread the other day but I think it got lost. We would really appreciate some help. She loves all of these schools except perhaps for one. She is interested in majoring in Chem and going on to dental school. She is very outgoing, a moderate, not particularly preppy in the UVA sense and not particularly 'alternative' in the dye-your-hair-pink way. She wanted a really good school, loves the open curriculum at Hamilton and Vassar, and wanted things to do within walking distance. </p>

<p>Her choices are:
Wesleyan
Vassar
Hamilton
Bowdoin
Colby
Bates
Skidmore
UVA OOS - I think this one is out because of size, Greek scene and what looks like quite a bit of racial segregation to us. </p>

<p>I think the top 4 are: Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Vassar and Hamilton</p>

<p>There are no <em>real</em> negatives to any of these schools, I'm just wondering out loud as we try to make a decision. (And we've had some feedback on the other college selection forum, but we wanted to see what the parents have to say.)</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Bowdoin- pro: I just loved this school, great kids, great faculty, she just seemed to fit right in, great academics, etc, etc
negative: a little far from home (9 hours versus 6 for most of the schools), not much of a town but a nice town, a little less well-known (compared to Wes and Vassar) so we're having a bit more trouble gathering info and we don't know about their placement into professional schools (I assume it's good.)</p></li>
<li><p>Vassar- pro: open curriculum, 2 hours from relatives, 3 day weekends, wonderful pre-medical office; negative: Poughkeepsie, social scene: How much of a dating life will a heterosexual black girl have there? (Please don't take offense at this. It's just that with the male-female ratio of 40-60, the supposed presence of a sizeable gay male population, the lack of black men and the fact that, in general, white men are less likely to date black girls, I just want to know if she can have a dating life.)</p></li>
<li><p>Wes- we haven't seen it; pro- we've heard great things of this school and they really seem to want her, negative- We know it's liberal (were told there were sex parties and such) but the real question is whether there are a lot of kids who are not part of that scene and still have a good time, also it sounds like it may be hard to get into the classes a student wants </p></li>
<li><p>Hamilton- open curriculum, beautiful facilities and the labs are incredible, nice people, nice little town; negatives: the school is a little more remote, the school is a little less well-known, the entering student stats are a touch lower, the graduation rate a bit lower-- Is it as strong academically?, Is it a heavy drinking/drugs school? (I only ask because one student we met kept mentioning partying and Greek life.)</p></li>
</ul>

<hr>

<p>Other schools:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>UVA- a lot of people are pushing UVA, the biggest negative is it seemed a little racially segregated to us, it's also bigger than she wanted and a little more Greek than we would like</p></li>
<li><p>Colby- We saw this school late on night and she liked it more than I did so... positive: nice people, remote but she thought it was ok, one student told us she was having trouble in calculus and the professor arranged to tutor her weekly for free! (wow!), negative: furthest from home, Is it as strong as Bowdoin?, a little remote, nothing within walking distance</p></li>
<li><p>Bates- very, very nice to her but I think she's ruled it out-- didn't like Lewiston or honors thesis</p></li>
<li><p>Skidmore has the best town but we're not sure the science program is as rigorous as her other choices</p></li>
</ul>

2

<p>Two years ago, final choice for my DS was between Bowdoin, Cornell, UMichigan and Wesleyan. He is at Wes. He had never seen Wes before but went for Admitted Student Days. Originially he wanted a much bigger school.
He thinks Middletown has everything a student needs. He's still looking for a major and at times has had trouble getting into some classes but usually there is a way around it. He's very active in various extracurriculars especially music. Plus he has a 10 hr/wk job off campus. He's found the work load challenging but not terrible -- probably has a B+/A- average. Check Wesleyan's Parentlistserve for discussions of various topics. He really liked Bowdoin -- especially how everyone is into playing/watching sports there -- when he visited one spring weekend. However he didn't like how far Bowdoin is from our home. Plus from Wes he can easily visit friends/family in
CT, Boston, NYC, and other parts of New England. My son is very social and likes the social scene at Wes. On the other hand, he is not edgy and probably didn't know what a "liberal" is; I've been impressed about how much more politically knowledgeable he is now. Good luck to your daughter.</p>

3

<p>Personal opinions only . I'm not "ranking" anything. I really like Hamilton and Bowdoin but my gosh. What a great group of schools. </p>

<p>As to the drinking, I believe you will find that most of these schools issue an IV at orientation so the kids can "drink" without disturbing the class. I believe they also have an alchohol patch for the shower. (As does my D's school and virtually every other well-heeled LAC.)</p>

<p>Negatives for Hamilton- air access is horrible. That hill :eek: from town has cardiac paddle stations every 100 feet (CLEAR!!). Bowdoin might be perfect but I didn't fly in. It was everything I would have thought my D wanted in a college at the time she was applying. As it turns out , D really wanted access to some big hospitals.</p>

<p>Again, what great choices she has. Y'all have to be over the moon.</p>

4

<p>As far as Wes and fitting in--my D went there and loved it. She is politically quite liberal, but was personally very conservative in behavior. What she adored about the school was that there was not one right way to be--if there is anything that students share in general, it's a sense of "goofiness"--in other words, except for a small NYC cool type sub set, most everyone else was extremely accepting of whatever you want to be. She found it extremely nonjudgmental, and loads of activities of every type (the sex party thing is way exaggerated.)</p>

5

<p>My S had a choice between Wes. Bowdoin and Bates. He eliminated Bates on account of Lewiston. He had a hard time choosing between Bowdoin and Wes. he eventually settled on Wes for two reasons: it was somewhat warmer (2 hours south rather than 2 hours north of where we live) and it is bigger than Bowdoin (Bowdoin would have been smaller than his high school).
Like Garland's D, he is politically liberal but personally conservative. He was quite happy at Wes.</p>

6

<p>Of the schools you mention, my son had a choice between Wes and Vassar. He chose Vassar. He is having a great experience. That being said, there is basically nowhere to walk to in Poughkeepsie. Probably about 1/3 of students have cars at some point. Our take was that Vassar was less alternative than Wes. I would not say it is a particulary dye-your-hair-pink kind of school, though many students (not mine) are into theater. I'm not sure what you mean about three-day-weekends; that is not a given, depending on what you take. You can take the train into NYC easily though it's not like most kids do that often.
The academics are wonderful. My son is not pre-med so I can't speak to that. His experience with advising has been terrific.
As far as I can tell, there is not a huge dating scene at Vassar. I don't know if this is in line with most other schools. There is a gay male population and there are heterosexual males. There are definitely more females, including one all-female dorm.
Can your daughter attend accepted students days?
Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.
Congratulations on your daughter's wonderful acceptances!</p>

7

<p>The faculty, resources, facilities, reputation of these schools are for the most part interchangeable, and, for the most part, so are the student bodies. She will get solid personal attention at all of these schools, and folks can go to dental school from any of them. </p>

<p>So you'll have to decide based more on intangibles - the feel, the town, transportation, or look toward things like open curriculum (if she feels distribution requirements are onerous, that could be a big one, but for most students, they are not.)</p>

<p>What does she do for fun?</p>

8

<p>These are all great schools, but based on the terms of your post and my "vibe" about your daughter, I would have to say Bowdoin sounds most like her. Sorry it's further away.</p>

<p>These are great choices. She'd probably do fine at all of them.</p>

9

<p>2college,</p>

<p>So many wonderful choices there, as others have said. Congratulations! Sharing impressions from our two Ds' visits and decisions... I am a big fan of Vassar, where D1 is a junior. She is abroad now and having a wonderful experience but is homesick for Vassar. It is a warm, tolerant, lively, creative place, full of opportunities. </p>

<p>I was mildly concerned that Vassar kids would be way out there--edgy, goth, whatever--but they've turned out to be awfully regular, give or take: bright, motivated, down-to-earth kids who want to do well but are also fun to be around. What else? Open curriculum was a big draw for D1, too. Poughkeepsie? Meh. Hardly a plus but D spends almost all her time on campus, goes to NYC once or twice a semester, and the neighborhood has some okay restaurants and shops. Most similar on your D's list are Wes and Skidmore, which D also looked at. She didn't like the Wes campus at all, although she liked the town well enough, and loved Saratoga Springs but was concerned that Skidmore might be TOO laid back. </p>

<p>Those three schools have a very different vibe from Hamilton, Bowdoin, or Colby, with Bates perhaps a tad closer to the Vassar/Wes end of the spectrum in terms of culture. Hamilton, Bowdoin, and Colby all have much more of an emphasis on athletics, outdoor pursuits, and frats or social houses. All of those schools do feel remote and are, which makes for a close-knit community but can add to the feel of an already-long winter. Great schools all, with tremendous resources and loyal alumni networks, but a different feel. D2 looked closely at those same schools and wound up someplace similar--different kid who would not have been happy at a Vassar, Wes, or Skidmore. </p>

<p>Like your D, D1 wondered beforehand about the male-female, gay guy rep at Vassar, but it didn't hold her back and hasn't made much difference. She has dated some and had crushes/rooting interests right along, but she's white, so it may be easier, I don't know. In general, I don't think Vassar has much of a dating culture; for D at least, the main thing has been the friends, and her groups of friends cut across all the categories. From my vantage point, the social scene at Vassar gains by subtraction: take away the football team, the ice hockey team... am wildly generalizing, but you get the idea. In any case, I'd have thought that Vassar and Wes would have more black students on campus overall than do the more isolated, northern schools, because Vassar and Wes draw from a more urban population to start with. Maybe not? You'd certainly have a better sense than I do.</p>

<p>Wishing your daughter happy deciding... Whatever she chooses will be a wonderful landing when the time comes!</p>

10

<p>Just to add to gratefulmom, Vassar has a huge JYA (Junior Year Abroad) program which may or may not intrigue your daughter.</p>

11

<p>What great choices, congratulations! D is a junior at Wes and could not be happier. She has loved all of her classes, every single one. Some were not her first choice, but she has found the profs excellent and engaging. She was even reluctant to study abroad this semester because she loves being at Wes so much, but is currently having a wonderful time in Italy. She is an athlete, studious, social - but not big partier, not politically active.</p>

12

<p>Just to clarify -- Bowdoin does not have fraternities at all. They were phased out a while ago.</p>

<p>Bowdoin is more like Williams/Amherst.</p>

<p>My S was interviewed at Bowdoin by a quirky kid who was seriously interested in Thomas Pynchon (geeky postmodern writer I love.)</p>

<p>Wes and Vassar area absolutely wonderful schools, every bit as wonderful as Bowdoin. I was just responding to the vibe of the OP's post, especially that they really loved Bowdoin.</p>

<p>I have been to all these schools. Bates is not really like Wes or Vassar. I can't think of an analogy for it. S's close friend from high school is there, so I know quite a bit about it.</p>

<p>They take their abolitionist past seriously, but I wouldn't say the student body is particularly activist.</p>

<p>Bowdoin spawned Hawthorne and Pres. Franklin Pierce. It takes its literary history seriously too.</p>

<p>And seriously (how many times can I use that word) all these schools are wonderful. The choice is hers.</p>

13

<p>No Greek life at Colby, either. It was all phased out not that long after I graduated. Waterville is definitely more remote, and the town itself is not exactly a mecca. The same is true of Bates/Lewiston. However, based on D's experience, it often seems to turn out that the surrounding community becomes less of a concern once students get to school because there's so much to do on campus.</p>

<p>Congrats and good luck to your D!</p>

14

<p>Sorry if I caused any confusion. I had in mind Hamilton's fraternities and Bowdoin's current social houses which I understood to fill the 'gap' created when frats were abolished there. CBBBlinker clarifies about Colby--thanks!--and of course Bates never had frats.</p>

<p>Mythmom is correct, I think, that Bates students aren't particularly activist, unlike Vassar or Wes kids. I was thinking of Bates' reputation as more 'crunchy' or 'chill' than its Maine counterparts. Maybe that's unfounded?</p>

15

<p>2college
your D has some awesome choices,congrats!
To be honest, if finding a decent sized group of black men to date/mingle with
is important in your decision, none of these choices will fit except for UVA.While you might have felt it was somewhat segregated it will be the only choice with any kind of heterosexual-black-men-mass.I'm sure theres some way to check the stats on the # of black men on the other campuses.My guess is that the # will be quite small,and the locales of the colleges probably don't encourage college group intermingling (in the mode of say, Amherst where location is in proximity to other colleges).</p>

16

<p>I'm a freshman at Vassar and I couldn't possibly say too many great things about it. Please don't worry about the dating scene - yes, there are too many girls for too few boys, but really, I think it's more important to have friends anyway. I couldn't really say whether race would be an issue but I'm more inclined to think that it wouldn't be, from what I've seen. </p>

<p>And I can't possibly emphasize enough how fabulous the open curriculum is. It's SUCH a relief to know that I'm going to be completely done with my "requirements" (which I would have fulfilled anyway) by the end of my freshman year - I'm now free to take anything I want, and I don't have to worry about my major taking over my life, either. It's amazing and I feel like I can learn about all kinds of random things. </p>

<p>As twinmom said, Vassar isn't THAT much of "dye-your-hair-pink" school. (Although I really don't understand how theatre is a factor - as a performing arts kid, I can assure you that no matter where you study/perform, you're strongly discouraged from "radically" changing your appearance. So perhaps you should clear that stereotype from your radar?) There is a very wide spectrum of student "type," which is nice, and groups tend to intermingle, anyway.</p>

17

<p>All good options. Since Wesleyan and Vassar are bigger than the other top choices, there more of every type of student there. Significantly more black students at Wesleyan than at other top choices though, and 50/50 m/f ratio may help dating issues.</p>

18

<p>athymee: Actually, there seems to be a largish population of straight black mn at Wesleyan. I mean, in numbers it won't compare to UVA because Wes is such a smaller school, but as LACs go, I think Wes is pretty good on that front, for what it's worth.</p>

19

<p>Bowdoin is the very best college in Maine imho! I went to Vassar and my d is at UVA. I hope yours picks Bowdoin - what a fabulous place. My d did not get in (I think being from Maine did not help) but is happy now at UVA. I could go on and on about the merits of Bowdoin but will keep this brief!</p>

20

<p>2college, what a wonderful dilemma for your daughter! All great choices with a good deal of overlap in character and student type. </p>

<p>My son was very interested in Hamilton and Wesleyan (eventually he attended Williams). He didn't visit Bowdoin or Vassar but many of his friends have and there seems to be a continuity of personality among these school.</p>

<p>Maybe my memory isn't accurate, but it seemed to me that at Hamilton places that were within walking distance -- other than the spectacular great outdoors -- were severely limited. We spent the night in Clinton and as I remember it, although it was a charming village, it was really not a practical walk from Hamilton. Nevertheless, my son really liked the atmosphere and was attracted by the innovative curriculum. I understand it's a highly social school, but I think the fraternity scene has been mitigated -- no houses, I believe?</p>

<p>Wesleyan has tremendous positive energy. I think the wildly leftwing reputation is somewhat tongue in cheek. These are basically friendly outgoing kids with an all embracive world view: whatever you want to do is okay with us! The distribution requirements are mostly non-restrictive except to assure that students get exposure to the full canon of learning, beyond Western and White. Not a particularly bucolic campus, a somewhat gritty area -- but easy access to New York and Boston is a plus. Your daughter should really try to visit.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how she does.</p>