Please help review D's list of schools

College Majors Music Major
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Hello - I hope that you are all enjoying the last few days of 2020. I am looking forward to reading more of the prescreen/audition/offers from the Class of 2025. What a wonderful group of kids to have not let the last year knock them down!

I was wondering if any of you could take a moment to review my D’s (HS class of 22 - Viola) current list of schools. The more we dive into the details of various schools, the more she becomes keen on Schools of Music/BM - but she is adamant about only looking at colleges/unis with challenging academics. We do not have any concerns about the location of the program - it could be anywhere in the US/Can/UK/Europe - although would prefer that she not stay in GA.

Currently, her list is as follows:
Vanderbilt/Blair - Northwestern/Bienen - Rice/Shepherd - CMU - UMich/SMTD - McGill - UofT - UBC - UCLA/Herb Alpert - USC/Thornton

Stanford - Princeton - Brown - Tufts - Williams - Swarthmore - Vassar - Pomona - Macalester - St Olaf

Are there any that we should add to our “Junior-Year investigation list”?

I am aware that there are not many true ‘safeties’ on this list as we are at a loss to find ‘safeties’ that have challenging academics and great music programs -would love some help w/this group. Also - how do you determine ‘safeties’ with schools that require auditions? We have classified all the SoM as reaches (just in case her audition isn’t great that day)

She has straight As, highest rigor (will finish school with 12 APs - all other classes are Honors), currently 1/275, 1580 SAT, (1510 PSAT), strong music ECs, ok community/volunteer ECs.

Thanks for the help - and happy holidays!

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Eastman School at Univ of Rochester?

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Thanks @taverngirl - that’s an excellent addition!

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Oberlin College’s Conservatory of Music?

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Thanks for the suggestion @ohioansenior2021 - she doesn’t seem to want to look at the conservatories - but it may be worth looking at how many classes outside of the ‘conservatory’ the music students can take now that she really wants that BM

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As a Blair alum, I’d say Vanderbilt sounds like a perfect fit!

I do have a few other suggestions, too. Assuming she’s interested, I’d add the following for consideration given her outstanding academic credentials: Columbia/Juilliard, Harvard/NEC, Tufts/NEC, and Yale. (If she’s applying to other Ivies, seems to me she should consider those with the strong music programs!)

For “safeties” (which seem harder to classify these days, and certainly this year with such rampant deferral rates) I’d also suggest Lynn Conservatory (full tuition scholarship for all admitted). I’ve noticed they have outstanding faculty, especially for strings, not to mention a very pleasant location. I’d also look at Indiana (not that Jacobs is a safety) and UW-Madison Mead Witter (which is).

Since she’s open to LACs, I’d also look at Amherst, Grinnell, Mt. Holyoke, and Smith. She might also look at Boston University, come to think of it.

I hope some of these are helpful names to add to the mix! Good luck!

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@msitbvs - Thanks so much for the new additions to her list (and the Blair love).
I am very curious about Lynn Conservatory as I have never even heard of it. To be honest, I did not now that the LACs you listed had good programs - looks like she’ll be doing some extra research! I would love for her to look at Columbia/Juilliard now that we are throwing the conservatories/joint programs back in the mix - thanks for reminding me about it.

We had looked at NEC last year while touring Tufts, Harvard, and Brown but the tour guide was so unhappy with the school that it left her very anxious. Might be worth a second look now that she is older and wiser - and maybe less likely to have one person’s opinion knock an entire program.

Thanks again -

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Oberlin Conservatory is pretty similar to a music school within a university. The students can take classes in the liberal arts college and the dual degree program is also very popular there.

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Macalester seems like an odd choice. I live in Mpls. It’s not really known for music. The primary LACs for music in this area are St. Olaf, Lawrence (Appleton WI) and Luther (Iowa). UMN Twin Cities or Wisconsin (Madison) would have more serious music programs. I used to see some of the regional college-level competition results and most winners would be from the schools listed above. If she’s a serious musician, she may want a certain quality of players surrounding her. My D did get “turned off” by one LAC when she sat in on a class. It may be worth her time to check out performances online for some of the programs. Kids can often tell where they belong musically. The academics are easier to figure out because you can see the scores, GPA etc. However for musical levels, you may want her to spend some time watching performances online. You may find a safety in this way. My D ended up applying for that LAC…just in case. There was no surprise that she was accepted with a nice scholarship…but went elsewhere. So in that sense a Macalester could stay in the mix if her academics are strong.

I hope that this helps.

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Thanks @guoguo0127 - she is going to take some time to look into the the program.

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Thanks @bridgenail - I will definitely suggest that she listen to the concerts online - that is such a great way for her to better understand the peer group!

Originally, we added the LACs mostly because I was nervous that acceptance to the BM programs seems so risky - one good day and you are in (if there is space in the studio) OR one bad audition, and you are not accepted. I think as she is heading much more passionately towards the BM (2/3 courses in music) side of things, we can probably be more selective about the LACs.

Macalaster, St Olaf, and Lawrence gave a trio presentation at her school and I think she said that she like St Olaf’s music program the best but didn’t like the requirement for 2 courses in Bible Study. Not sure why Lawrence got the ax, but apparently the Macalaster AO was fantastic. Thanks for the inside/regional view on the schools and performance levels. That definitely makes it easier to assess the value in applying.

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Hello! When my son was applying, he also prioritized music schools at universities with high academic standards, so your list looks very familiar. The two most noteworthy option that fits that description that are missing from your list are Peabody Conservatory at Johns Hopkins University and NYU Steinhardt.

Peabody has a separate admissions process from the rest of JHU, but all Peabody students are JHU students, graduate with JHU degrees, and are eligible to take classes at Homewood (the main JHU campus). My son has really loved being in class with non-music majors, and is strongly considering an academic minor outside of Peabody.

That said, unlike USC Thornton, NW Bienen, NYU Steinhardt, UCLA Herb Alpert, and the rest which weight academics and audition equally during the admissions process, Peabody weighs the audition much more importantly (both with regards to admissions and scholarships). It makes for a great option for a musician who is academically inclined.

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@WestOfPCH - she keeps adding/removing Peabody because she is concerned about the frosh dorm being just Peabody kids - was your son a frosh on campus this year? Did he feel that it was restrictive/isolating?

How safe is the area around Peabody and Steinhardt? She is not the street-savviest of kids - although I suppose she will learn that skill quickly if needed!

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The terminology “conservatory” and “school of music” can divert people sometimes from good choices. They are all BM programs regardless.

Many people interpret “conservatory” to mean freestanding but Oberlin’s Conservatory is part of the College just as some of the SOM’s you list are part of the university. In fact, Oberlin’s Conservatory has a “low wall” with the college. Many do double degrees, and there is an enhanced Musical Studies BA with access to resources and opportunities in the Con. The innovation in Music Studies was geared to kids who love music but want to take more classes outside of music.

Have you or your daughter read the Double Degree Dilemma essay that is now in the “Read Me” thread above? Is she considering a double degree?

NEC is great for strings, and many students at Harvard and Tufts love the program. I was wondering why Harvard wasn’t on her list. Not only for the double degree program but for the academics and pretty excellent extracurricular music (see Brattle Street Players).

ps technicality but Herb Alpert School at UCLA offers a BA but it resembles a BM program

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Hi @compmom - D and I both read the Double Degree dilemma, and like many of the kids here, she has changed her mind many times. Right now, she is feeling confident about wanting 1/2 to 2/3 of her course to be music based (primary focus on performance) and is uncomfortable deciding on a single subject area for double major/minor or the double degree.

To be perfectly honest, COVID isolation hit her pretty hard and my husband and I are now really looking at the heavy workload/minimal fun aspect of a double degree (especially when done in 4 years) as an unnecessary burden for her. I am comfortable with her doing a BM and a minor (in whatever she wants) and then at the end of that effort, deciding what the next step will be - even if it is an extra year at the undergrad level to get ready for the Master’s level education.

I am going to give her a nudge towards reviewing Harvard/NEC as that is a 5 year program and seemed set up to let the kids really enjoy their time at Harvard and then focus/work hard at NEC.

Thanks - and Happy New Year!

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@howdidwegethere
Let me answer the second question first regarding how safe the area around Peabody and Steinhardt are: the short answer is that both neighborhoods are safe

  • The Mt. Vernon neighborhood in which Peabody is specifically located is upscale, and generally speaking, anywhere within a half-mile radius is safe. Beyond that, it depends on which direction you walk (which is true of many city neighborhoods). Walking south on Charles Street all the way to the harbor a little over a mile away is totally fine, and the street is loaded with nice shops, hotels, and places to eat.
  • Steinhardt (and NYU in general) is as safe as you’d expect anything in Greenwich Village to be, which is pretty safe.

We have a friend whose violinist daughter is a HS senior, and she’s applying to both of the above, plus other urban universities/conservatories like USC Thornton, MSM, Juilliard, NEC, etc. I had no problem with the safety aspects when recommending Peabody or Steinhardt to them, and if I had a daughter, I’d do the same.

That said, being in any city requires vigilance. My son loves the energy of the “big city” and specifically limited his choices to urban schools (one reason he ended up dropping NW Bienen since it was too far from Chicago proper); other people, um, not so much. I went to grad school at USC (though not Thornton) 20+ years ago, and while I felt very safe on campus and in the immediate vicinity, you have to be smart. UCLA is in an upscale part of town and that can lull students into a false sense of security leading to carelessness; of course, bad things can happen on any college campus, even in idyllic small towns.

Regarding the dorms:
He lived in the dorms his Freshman year, then got permission to get his own apartment off campus for his sophomore year. Dorm life in general was okay, but he was dying to get his own place. At the end of freshman year, we asked him specifically if he thought he’d feel different if he were in dorms with mixed majors and he emphatically said, “No.” He and other Peabody friends often went to gatherings at the main JHU Homewood dorms, and while that was fun and he really liked meeting non-Peabody students (his girlfriend is a JHU pre-med major), the Homewood dorms weren’t any more appealing to him.

FWIW: We have a good family friend whose son went to USC Thornton and lived in a suite-style dorm his freshman year, where four rooms (two students each) open onto a common area and shared bathroom. While the overall dorm building included different majors, all the students in his suite were music majors.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions either here or via DM.

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Thanks for the extra info @WestOfPCH - it is really helpful. I will show her this response and see if that will impact her decision regarding Peabody & Steinhardt.

I wonder if what is really at play is her preference for a sub-urban campus. I know when we were at Brown, she was thrilled to be a few blocks from a ‘cool’ street of shops and then talked about the allure of Harvard and Rice being in a ‘cool’ area and both being close but not too close to the downtown core.

Thanks again - and Happy New Year!

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PM’ing you

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We visited both St Olaf and Macalester last year, and my daughter applied (and got in with merit) to both (she ended up at a different LAC for several reasons but could see herself in either). She’s not a music major but she has been playing two instruments for many years, and music is an important extracurricular for her. She’s an atheist, but she loved St. Olaf. I wouldn’t worry about the Bible requirement. From what I heard, these are academic courses on theology/history of religion, not some kind of proselytizing. There’s a separate thread dedicated to this issue on CC, as far as I recall. It’s a very liberal and accepting place it seems.

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Thanks @Motherprof - I am going to check out that other thread. Happy New Year!

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