Please help Undecided STEM (and Undecided about STEM) Girl’s college list

Hi all, some update and questions. D got antsy about applying CS to all the UC/CSU’s, has decided she really does not want to attend Sac State (too close to home), and is really nervous about the mental health climate at WPI (as am I).

So she put in a last minute application to Oregon State to hopefully have an option closer to home – and she was admitted with a WUE scholarship (still waiting for Honors College decision)! :smile: Thank you so much @Mountain22 and @eyemgh for all the good OSU info!

We drove up for Admitted Students Day this weekend and enjoyed the long scenic drive (though it was pretty uncomfortable when we accidentally stopped for gas in Yreka, “capital” of the “State of Jefferson”). It was much like @Mountain22 described – beautiful campus in a small town surrounded by rural communities. Cute downtown area nearby with shops/restaurants and more food options than I expected for such a small town.

Everyone was really nice, but it felt pretty empty and quiet for a large university, similar to other campuses we visited during summer break. It was President’s Day on Monday, but classes were actually in session, and Tuesday morning it still felt pretty empty. D doesn’t want a big school, but was hoping for more “energy” from the campus.

We did notice more students of color in the Engineering admitted student sessions as well as the Engineering building (couldn’t tour the building, but admired the beautiful exterior and first floor), and overall felt the students were more racially/ethnically diverse than we’d expected. But although @Mountain22 mentioned it, D and I didn’t really appreciate the gender disparity in engineering schools until we went to the Engineering session. They said the college has 22% female students (which we realize now is not that uncommon), and D was really disappointed to be the only female at the CS tables and mock CS class. She spoke with a nice TA who attended as an undergrad, who confirmed it was challenging with so few women, but that numbers were improving.

They did mention the higher # of female engineering faculty like @Mountain22 noted, so that was promising. I know some of the schools D applied to have better male:female ratios in their engineering schools, but except for WPI those are all reaches so we are now looking more closely at the Common Data Sets. It didn’t really sink in how a gender imbalance might affect her college experience and the trip was worth it just to get that consideration on our radar.

The other OSU concern I had was ABET certification. One prof described the “Applied” and “Systems” tracks the CS students can take, and noted only the Systems track is ABET accredited. Since my D is currently interested in the Applied track, should she be trying to attend a program that is ABET accredited in that specific area? Will it make a big difference for grad school and/or jobs?

Other good news – D was admitted to Pitt as a CS major in their School for Computing and Information (still waiting to hear about Honors College). :smile: Thank you again @James_West and @Mwfan1921 for encouraging her application, she feels so much better having some great options!

We are planning a visit to Pitt and WPI in April, and should hear from the rest of the schools before then. Thanks again everyone for all your help!

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For CS, ABET accreditation makes little different per se, unless one wants to take the patent exam. It does set a decent minimum standard of quality for the CS major, which can be some assurance for a lesser known school’s CS major. However, many prominent-for-CS schools do not have ABET accreditation for their CS majors.

ABET accreditation does require 40 semester credits in CS, 15 semester credits in math, and 6 semester credits in non-CS science (an entire BA/BS degree generally requires 120 semester credits; at schools on the quarter system, 180 quarter credits are required, and 1 quarter credit = 2/3 semester credit). Colleges without ABET accreditation for CS often do not have the latter (particularly the non-CS science) in the requirements for CS majors. This appears particularly common with LACs, but also happens in CS majors that are not engineering based or are in a liberal arts division of a university.

Some CS major programs which could fulfill ABET accreditation simply choose not to do the work involved in getting the accreditation.

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So happy for your D. Many congratulations to her admits. UCs/CSUs are almost around the corner anyways. I am sure she will land into something she deserves.

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My daughter was also admitted to Pitt for CS, so if they both attend there will be two more young women :slight_smile:

That particular issue is something that I’ve been disappointed by, too. But I have told my D22 that the workforce will look like that so it’s better to get used to it now or decide it’s not the environment she wants. It seems like a lot of CS and Engineering programs have women’s groups like SWE (D22 received a $2,000/yr scholarship from Boulder’s SWE group actually), or other various groups. I think there are a lot of ways for young women to join clubs and groups to help them get a break from the dudes.

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Remember, at a school like Oregon State, there are LOTS of majors. The overall breakdown is roughly 50/50. My son majored in a largely male field, at a school where the CENG is predominately male, like it is most places. His friend group had more females than males though. The bulk of his male friends, but not all, were engineers. His female friends were probably 3/4 non-engineers. She will not be confined to developing relationships only within her major. She’ll meet people in the dorms, and ultimately friends of friends.

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My D21 joined her campus SWE org this semester and she has enjoyed that.

We did not set out to look at gender of dept leadership and professors, but in the end that was something that D21 valued in all of her final choices- there were women in leadership positions in the engineering departments that were recruiting her. One even reached out after a visit and told her even if she choose another college that she would still be happy to help mentor her from afar. It was very genuine.

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Thank you so much, that is very reassuring! :sweat_smile:

Thank you and congrats to your daughter on her many great acceptances already! Exciting to see where our girls end up! :slight_smile:

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Yay, more CS girls! :muscle:

I’ve talked to my D about the male dominated workforce but nothing really hit home for her until we walked in from the main meetings to the Engineering and especially CS rooms. She’s lucky that her high school has very even gender representation in robotics, science olympiad etc, maybe even more girls in leadership for those groups, plus STEM teachers have been mostly women too. So it was just a major reality check for her.

She’s definitely going to look more closely now at the types of support each school offers – clubs, women in faculty/leadership, mentoring etc. From my quick look at some of her schools it seems like CS in particular is even more male-heavy than even other engineering majors? So I think she’ll really need to look at the total experience for the female students, not just the #s.

Has your D visited Pitt? That sounds like a really great school, although my D is a little nervous about the quality of their CS program if their school websites/portals are as bad as they are. Joking, but kinda not. I told her she and other SCI kids can work on the Pitt portals as a senior project or something. :wink:

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Same feeling. Currently she has 1 or 2 decisions she’s waiting to see before enrolling. I do see these deferrals are cooling off the kids a bit, she’s relaxed about Pi-Day and ivy-day.

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Interestingly mine is doing her senior year research project on gender inequality in STEM, especially at the early years (middle/high schools)

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Yes, we could see the school overall is much more balanced, which definitely helps, but she was surprised to feel so alone when we switched to the Engineering and CS meetings. Granted it was just admitted students and not actual students, but we sat in on a mock CS class where she was the only girl, then stayed for the next class. That was a mock Psych class which was dominated by girls, so she was unhappy about that imbalance too! Can’t win with this one. :wink:

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This is something D is definitely looking into now as she realizes how important it will be for her to be supported.

Your D’s experience sounds amazing! Can I ask where she is now? (sorry if you told me before I can barely keep track of my own D’s apps!). And what school reached out after the visit – love that! :two_hearts:

We visited Pitt last year during D22’s spring break. We didn’t have a formal tour (I can’t remember if they were offering them at that time), and couldn’t really go into any of the buildings. Nonetheless, D fell in love with PGH and Pitt and it was her #1 choice until they deferred her. She’s since been accepted into SCI for CS, and is researching the nitty gritty differences between the programs at Pitt, CU Boulder and IU Bloomington. She likes things about all of them so I think it will be a tough decision. Right now Pitt is the most affordable of those 3. She has Iowa State and Michigan State acceptances to CS as well, and those are under budget so they’ve stayed on the list for price reasons.

At this point, I’m encouraging her to sign up for Pitt’s virtual admitted students programming (we won’t be able to make it out there before the May 1 deadline), and get in touch with any student mentors, things like that. I’ve let her know that this process of her reaching out is sort of a trial run for how things will be next year. How difficult is it to navigate the portals, websites, administration office, etc.? She’ll need to use this skill as a student to stay engaged with professors, seek help, connect with study groups, etc. The tough thing is that it’s the best school overall, academically, that she’s been accepted to for now. Their CS program is pretty much in a 4-way tie with 4 of her acceptances, though. There’s no clear cut “winner” at the moment! She’s waiting on UIUC, William & Mary, Cal Poly, and deferrals/waitlists from VT, RHIT and UW-Madison (though not expecting an acceptance at any of them).

(Your note about their website it definitely something I’ve noticed and if you can believe it MSU’s is even worse. Their CS site specifically is terrible.)

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She is at UNH and is very happy with her choice. It was someone at UNH who knew she had some other highly ranked choices.

As others have said, she went where they showed the love and where she could see herself. They also had a female engineering student show her around for a couple hours when we visited. That was huge in a year with very little human interaction. Compared to her high schools friends in engineering at other colleges, she has had more first year hands-on engineering projects in small classes.

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Wow sounds like she has so many great choices – yay for her! Omg can’t imagine MSU’s CS website is worse than Pitt’s?!

I LOVE this idea! I bet will give her lots of great insights on the different schools and programs and really help her find her best fit! I may steal it and encourage my D to do the same. :wink:

(btw What is PGH?)

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Wow, sounds like a great school, so encouraging to hear they went out of their way to reach out and she’s so happy now. I hope my D can find her place too, I just need to be patient. :wink: Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and advice!

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PGH = Pittsburgh :slight_smile:

Haha, oops! I guess I should learn that one! :rofl:

I read your post above about your daughter being the only girl in the CS class. what did she think?

we attended an engineering session (aerospace) at a school recently. My daughter 2023 asked percentage of females - 12%. I asked her later about that; to me, that means great chances of getting jobs as long as she is par with others.

To her, she thought it would be awkward going through classes her whole time being one a few. would she be chosen for groups or teams? seen as “weaker?” have less friends to bond with? have to worry about guys? It’s not something i had thought of before; but it’s on her mind. I do hope she stays with engineering though.

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