<p>My son is finishing up his sophomore year in high school and says he wants to go to school for computer science and mostly interested in software design/development. He has very strong math skills (scored a 70 on the PSAT in math- 99% higher than sophomores) and is interested in a school that is going to be hands on and 'practical'. </p>
<p>Currently, with minimal effort on his part, he has a weighted GPA of 4.3 (unweighted about 3.8) and is in the top 4% of his class (20 out of 461). I just bribed him w/cash to pull his unweighted grade up and saw him bring work home from school for only the 3rd time this year. He has all honors and an AP class, so we have yet to see what he is capable of accomplishing if he put in decent effort. I'm hoping that he'll be inspired to maximize his potential with interesting classes and talented professors in college, but competition does not motivate him, and if anything, would make him shut down.</p>
<p>I see him doing well in a smaller liberal arts college, because I think he would disappear in a bigger school (the whole, big fish in a small pond thing), and as much as he would like to focus on math and science, he is also creative and artistic (talented musician who is not interested in pursuing music due to its impracticality, although he does plan on learning the oboe this summer in hopes that it will be a hook on his applications). His dream school is Carnegie Mellon (I think for the name and strong CS program) but even if he miraculously got in I don't see us being able to afford it based on their seeming lack of aid. We are looking for schools that give merit and blind need aid- we do not have any $ saved for college but think our income might be too high for much help.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any suggestions for schools that will provide a more hands on/real world type learning environment that isn't solely focused on math and science? We're going to look at Northeastern and RIT, but I'm also going to try to sneak in Allegheny in hopes he'll be pleasantly surprised. </p>
<p>My husband and I both went to default state colleges (and both ended up transferring) with little thought or encouragement. Our son's school counselor is doing little as far as suggestions besides giving us search websites. So I'm grateful to have found this board as I feel like it is important to research options to find a good fit.</p>
<p>Thank you in advance for any suggestions.</p>
<p>Mom- do yourself a favor and run one of the online aid calculators before you get ahead of yourself. Don’t assume you won’t get need based aid; run the numbers with this years tax return in front of you to get a benchmark. Obviously, it’s not a commitment (and your numbers will change yearly) but it will get you some perspective.</p>
<p>The posters here will be able to give you tons of suggestions of schools- if it were my kid I’d be looking at Case, Purdue, Rose Hulman, Drexel, RPI just to start.</p>
<p>Get a handle on what you can realistically afford and then we can help.</p>
<p>Any of the Penn State schools appeal to him? I assume you’re PA residents?</p>
<p>And how far would he consider going?</p>
<p>Be careful in selection, since many schools’ CS major degree programs are rather limited (in terms of course offerings and selection). This is especially true for many smaller schools.</p>
<p>Look for schools with either:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>[ABET</a> -](<a href=“http://www.abet.org%5DABET”>http://www.abet.org) accreditation in CS, or</p></li>
<li><p>Upper division CS course offerings offered at reasonable frequency that include:</p></li>
<li><p>Algorithms and complexity</p></li>
<li><p>Theory of computation, language, and automata</p></li>
<li><p>Operating systems</p></li>
<li><p>Compilers</p></li>
<li><p>Networks</p></li>
<li><p>Databases</p></li>
<li><p>Software engineering</p></li>
<li><p>Security and cryptography</p></li>
<li><p>Graphics</p></li>
<li><p>Artificial intelligence</p></li>
<li><p>Computer architecture</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Thank you both for your replies. Blossom, I will run the calculator- I’ve been avoiding it in fear of big disappointment, but you’re right- I need to start somewhere. He doesn’t like the idea of Drexel due to suggestion (speaking with former graduates) of high incidence of drugs, plus he’s reluctant to be in Philly (even when I suggested Penn for reach). His cousin recently decided on Penn State, so he’ll go and visit and at one point said “I can just go to Penn State” as a fall back. I worry about the large classes- I don’t think he gets it. He already is reluctant to approach his teachers about anything (doesn’t want to ‘bother them’) in his classes of 30. Also, I have a fear of him not getting into classes. I had that problem at WCU and transferred after 2 yrs due to frustration. I’ve assumed most state schools have that problem, am I incorrect?</p>
<p>He interested in East Coast as far west as Michigan, but nowhere south of North Carolina, and even then not really interested in that far south. </p>
<p>ucbalumnus, thank you for the suggestion. I am just starting to look closer at the individual program course offerings- it is so overwhelming and challenging to sift through so I appreciate some basic things to look for. I recently read somewhere about LAC requiring a lot more writing even in science classes (i.e lab reports) and my son would just absolutely hate that so those should be ruled out I suppose… </p>
<p>I’m feeling quite overwhelmed! Yikes!!</p>
<p>Some of the tech schools have some interesting art options so don’t rule them out. In a couple of years, tiny LAC may seem too confining. But tech schools go from tiny (Olin, Caltech to gigantic so he’ll have lots of choices when the time comes.) If he stays in the top 4% of his class Carnegie Mellon and RPI may definitely be worth a look.</p>
<p>OP- don’t rule anything out now whether it’s your own flagship (too big) or an LAC (too much writing, even in a science class), or anything else. You will do a lot of homework and end up with a list of exactly zero schools which is quite disheartening.</p>
<p>Nail down what you can afford to pay and how likely it is to get need based aid from both schools which will cover all your need and those which will gap you. Take a look at your spending and figure out what you can realistically afford to pay monthly or annually for tuition. Take a look at your “financial house”- retirement, life insurance, disability, ages of your parents and other children and decide if you can safely afford to borrow.</p>
<p>Once you’re squared away on that, there will be at least 20 schools which meet some (but not all) of your criteria, and then you and your son get to do the fun part- figuring out what’s important and what you can compromise on.</p>
<p>I had one kid who probably never spoke to a HS teacher outside the classroom (and it was a small HS!) This kid went to a big (not huge) university and did just fine-- as do most kids- so I wouldn’t start shaving your list based on size right now. Especially if Penn State has most of what he’s looking for and it’s affordable-- it’s so reassuring to get one school down on the list as “I am definitely applying here and would be happy to go here”.</p>
<p>We can help with the list- you need to spend some quality time with your visa bills and your tax return!!!</p>
<p>GeorgiaTech is not brutal for out of staters compared to privates. My nephew just got moved to SF and offered $100k two years out of school. He is also a musician. I know you said not south of NC, but Atlanta really is unique. I just thought I’d mention it. Stony Brook is not a LAC, but it is very reasonable with an excellent program. Harvey Mudd is probably the one true LAC that would qualify. I believe its need blind, and it does have some merit money though limited. It’s a reach for all, but worth a look.</p>
<p>I suggest using cost/affordability and existence/quality of the computer science major as initial screens.</p>
<p>Note, however, if a school is unaffordable with just need-based financial aid, but does offer merit scholarships that could make it affordable, you may be able to consider it as “match” or “reach” financially, depending on whether getting the needed merit scholarship is a “match” or “reach” (e.g. Georgia Tech is expensive out of state, but there are highly competitive full tuition and full ride scholarships for top students). Or even “safety” if the merit scholarship is guaranteed by grades/rank/test stats that the student has (some use the Alabama schools for this).</p>
<p>Add WPI to your list of potentials, it is a little smaller (about 3800 students) than most tech-oriented schools (such as RIT and RPI) and has some other nice features like the project-based curriculum, and a NOT cutthroat environment.
[WPI</a> Difference - WPI](<a href=“http://www.wpi.edu/about/difference.html]WPI”>http://www.wpi.edu/about/difference.html)
I think they are only fair on financial aid, but give out merit aid to a lot of students. It might really suit his personality and seem less intimidating than bigger schools such as Northeastern, Drexel etc.
Also consider Clarkson University if he doesn’t mind being WAY OUT in the country in upstate New York. It has a really good program and I believe they use merit aid frequently as well. We toured it a few years back and we really liked it buy my son felt the location was too remote for him.
I agree with the other posters about running the numbers through a financial aid calculator to find out where you really stand. The easiest one is:
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | QuickEFC](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Quick EFC - Finaid)</p>
<p>Also, help your son understand that his chances for merit aid are based on how much a potential college wants him, so his GPA and test scores and EC’s ALL matter. Also you may be able to use your location to help you, for example, Case Western uses merit aid to lure good students to Cleveland from east and west coasts because more of their applicants come from the midwest, New York and PA.</p>
<p>I don’t understand. NY isn’t east coast? Hey, I can squint and see the water from my house.</p>
<p>pamomofthree - your S sounds so much like mine, and we just went through the whole process in the same exact areas that you’re looking in. The problem we found with a lot of the tech schools is that they aren’t strong in liberal arts, and the liberal arts colleges aren’t always strong in comp sci. MIT and Carnegie Mellon are awesome schools for cs and have liberal arts as well, but they are very, very work intensive. You have to be a kid who’s really into cs and wants to work really hard. My S loved CMU (he didn’t apply to MIT although he liked it there too), but the workload for the cs major was so intense that he decided against it because he couldn’t explore a lot of other subjects and still have a life.</p>
<p>Case is great financially if you have good grades. But the cs program is a little weak.</p>
<p>We also liked Lehigh, Vassar, Tufts, URochester, Yale, Brown, Princeton, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, Penn, Haverford, Swarthmore, Oberlin, and Connecticut College, although he didn’t apply to all those. He also looked at Amherst, Wesleyan, Trinity in CT, and Bowdoin. I think we were just about everywhere, so ask me anything!</p>
<p>We skipped Northeastern because I didn’t think he’d like the way they run their program, and they seemed to be very preprofessional, which I’m not sure he would have liked. Didn’t really like RIT either. WPI and RPI are great for cs but not for liberal arts, so we scratched them. </p>
<p>Feel free to PM me…</p>
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<p>Based on this I was going to recommend he look at Northeastern but I see that’s already on your list. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Mythmom - hmm…I guess I didn’t word that right. I think Case has a hard time recruiting from New England states and the west coast. Case is well known in western NY, but I wonder if NYC kids would consider a college in Cleveland?</p>
<p>OP - It sounds like you have a really bright kid! But speaking frankly, students that breeze through hs may not be ready to juggle the grueling workload of the top cs programs. Make sure he is scheduled to take the most challenging courses possible next year, with intensive assignments and projects.</p>
<p>Due to the music interest, make sure you look into Case. When we visited a few years ago, I think they said engineering/music was the most popular double major. There are ways to do a minor or just courses or band too.</p>
<p>BeanTownGirl: I don’t know. I couldn’t get mine west of the Hudson except for U of Chicago. One deigned to apply. Grrr. It’s all in the past for me. Mine aren’t techy either.</p>
<p>I thought they were being silly, but I did like taking day trips to visit them.</p>
<p>Back to the issue at hand.</p>
<p>I am not as knowledgeable as many of the posters. I read three college guide books cover to cover to find the schools to visit. Neither child really got fired up about the process.</p>
<p>I think the combination of CS with a “hands-on” emphasis suggests the Northeastern, RPI, WPI type of schools so if you throw in the “good liberal arts too” requirement - the choices get limited. The three are not mutually exclusive, but hard to find in one place and in balance.
I know at RPI and WPI specifically, the liberal arts exist but are there to provide balance to the curriculum. If it is music specifically that he cares about, you may want to look more closely at their offerings. I know RPI has a fabulous new performing arts facility. Maybe their music offerings are stronger than you think. The Ivies and near ivies mentioned above are likely to have a more theoretical approach to CS than the “hands-on” approach he thinks he wants.
I guess you really need to investigate these various options. and he may want to apply to a variety of environments while deciding where he would fit in best. It is sometimes hard to choose.
I know my son struggled with the choice of well-rounded schools (Tufts) versus more techy places (WPI). He really liked both and could fit in at either :-)</p>
<p>Depends which Ivy you’re referring to, and what kind of cs you’re looking for…For instance, Brown is awesome for creative/artsy cs but Princeton would be better for comp. eng. And they sometimes have computer clubs where kids get together for projects and/or gaming.</p>
<p>For someone who likes liberal arts, WPI and RPI will probably be somewhat of a disappointment - don’t know about music specifically. Case is good for engineering, but not cs from what I understand.</p>
<p>From the OP’s description, I got the impression he is not interested in liberal arts, only music.</p>
<p>My son is finishing his first year at RIT and loves it. He was looking for hands on and practical as well. He got half of his required liberal arts classes covered with AP credits. RIT has guaranteed merit based on test scores and class rank. The highest is about $16,000 though. They do have majors in art and design, but I am not aware of music. </p>
<p>Case does attract a large group of students from the Long Island/Northern NJ area, at least they did in the '80’s. I knew kids from Boston as well.</p>
<p>I totally disagree with the “Princeton is better than Brown” for CS statement, but since both are practically impossible to get into it is a moot point :-)</p>
<p>Also, when looking at LACs - many have CS as a major, but I believe the CS program will be better at a school that also has engineering. There is a lot of cross-over between CS and EE/CE so I think a school that has both has a stronger overall program, not to mention more options for minors. Just having exposure to the engineering curriculum, students, professors etc. might spark in interest in something like robotics. So I would choose, for example, Tufts over Bowdoin for CS.
My advice is to explore both the tech-oriented schools like RPI, RIT, Case to see if they have enough liberal arts offerings for this student, AND the more well-rounded schools that have engineering as well as CS (Union, Tufts, Bucknell etc.). He may feel more at home at one type versus the other and that would help narrow down the list…</p>
<p>I never said Princeton was better than Brown for cs - read my post again. My S preferred Brown over Princeton because of the program.</p>