<p>My D will be a senior in HS next year and is starting to think about what classes to take. The parents on here are so knowledgeable and I could use your help. She has taken AP World Hist in 10th grade, and this year is taking AP Chem, Ap US Hist, and AP Eng/Lang. Everything else is honors where offered except French. She's in French 4 now and wanted to stay with her same teacher so opted out of honors for that which would lead to AP next year, if it is even still offered. She is taking pre-calc this year and really doesn't like it all all. She doesn't really like math at all.</p>
<p>OK, so what to do for next year? She excells at Hist and English so she defintiely will take AP Lit and AP Gvt. She has to take religion at her school and has to take 2 computer classes for her requirement. So taht elaves some room. My question is does she HAVE to take a math or science next year to be looked at favorably by good colleges? Her counselor is kind of hinting that she should and that schools look at the fact she won't be in a foreign lang anymore also, BUT I have seen many kids take fewer AP's overall and fewer honors classes,etc, and still go to good colleges,so I'm wondering about this advice. Do colleges look that closely to see if you continued in math and science as a senior even if you are a kid interested in Political Science as a college major? Since she started the math and science and foreign lang track early in 8th grade, she is completeing the 4 year series of those in 11th grade. She could take AP Clac and AP Bio but that would be 4 AP's in her senior year which seems like a lot especially when she isn't thrilled with Math. The regular clac teacher is bad the AP Calc teacher is good at her school.</p>
<p>Ignoring the importance of how an admissions decision might be shaped by the absence of math on the schedule, I would encourage her to take the AP Calculus (with the better teacher) just to remain active with math. It is a use it or lose it function for most of us and she will perform so much better in meeting her college math requirement if she doesn't have the large gap in exposure.</p>
<p>A bad grade in a higher level math class won't do her any good. If you have a local college with a decent reputation, she really might want to consiser enrolling in a subject she likes for senior year. At my D's school, the kids who topped out of all the classes and went on to take classes and get at least Bs at the local college turned out to have the "golden ticket" for acceptance into first tier schools.</p>
<p>Our guidance consellors say that for top tier schools, it is good to have four years of high school math and four years of high school science - do her 8th grade math and science classes show up on the transcript as if they were high school classes? If so maybe you are okay. I honestly have no idea how colleges would look at this. </p>
<p>French through French 4 is enough unless she wants to take more.</p>
<p>I think if she is not a math science kid there is no reason to take both AP calc and AP bio.
I recommend AP calc over AP bio if she thinks she will do about equally well in either. At our HS, AP calc AB is considered easier than AP bio, and AP calc BC a bit harder than AP bio - which is she considering? AB I hope. If she doesn't like pre-calc, AP calc BC will not be good.</p>
<p>If your D doesn't like math then don't force AP Calculus, it is not easy at all. You can go for statistics or AP statistics which doesn't require calculus. But 4 years of math is more or less a strict requirement for top schools even if the student is not interested in science and math at university level. There will be exception to this rule but for some exceptional ability in which case it won't matter what you take in senior year at all.</p>
<p>If she is interested in Hist/languages then she should take AP Euro history if not taken before and AP French.</p>
<p>I'll echo above poster with the AP Euro as an additional or in lieu of AP Govt. Son also took AP Micro and Macro and enjoyed both. AP Stats would be a good alternative to the AP Calc if she isn't into math and yet gives her a serious math for senior year. What other science has she had besides the AP Chem? Honors Chem/Honors Bio or Physics, Environmental Science...</p>
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But 4 years of math is more or less a strict requirement for top schools even if the student is not interested in science and math at university level.
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<p>She has four years of high-school-level math. It's just that one of those years was taken in 8th grade. If it appears on her transcript, there should be no problem. Even if it doesn't, admissions officers are sufficiently sophisticated to know that a student who completes precalculus in 11th grade took high-school-level math in 8th grade.</p>
<p>Despite all that, it still might be a good idea for her to take math her senior year if statistics is offered (it's a valuable course for social scientists) or if her school offers AB Calculus as a full-year course (it's quite slowly paced and therefore well suited for students to whom math does not come naturally).</p>
<p>Regardless of what your daughter does, though, I think the most important thing is that she should have five rigorous academic courses in her senior year schedule. If she does not take math, science, or foreign language, she had better have four rigorous social studies courses to go with her required English course.</p>
<p>This is all very helpful. Unfortunately, since it's a medium sized Catholic school, they don't offer AP Euro, AP Stats, nor AP Economics. I don't even think they'll have AP French next year.</p>
<p>She took honors Bio, honors chem, then AP chem as far as science goes so far. Has no interest in physics.</p>
<p>I'll look into the AP Calc to see if it's AB or BC. I have no idea. </p>
<p>So, it does make it a bit confusing when they complete the 4 year sequences at the end of 11th grade. I sincerely do hope colleges realize that and allow expansion into other areas. It's kind of a shame that at her school the regular calc teacher would be the same one she has had for the last 2 years and REALLY wants to get away from. Ultimately she can take what she wants but I want to help her make a good decision. </p>
<p>Thank you for your help and keep it coming!</p>
<p>Those 8th grade classes only count for high school graduation requirements. From what I've heard classes taken in 8th grade do NOT count with colleges as hs math even if it is shown on the transcript. Those grades are also NOT included when the college recalculates her GPA. Look closely at the admit web page of her college picks and they will probably state 8th grade classes don't count. Most colleges want to see 4 maths and 3 sciences and 3 foreign lang (which from what you say she has) taken in hs. Statistics is an option but if it's a one semester class make sure she can get another math the second semester.</p>
<p>Check with your high school to make sure Physics isn't a graduating requirement.</p>
<p>Something else, check to see what your state is requiring for the 2011 class because they may have changed it to four years in all the core subjects. Yeah, it's not your D's class but that is a good indication of what colleges are looking for.</p>
<p>Saf, I recommend that you speak to her counselor and get some idea what the implications for your D are in taking one sort of schedule over another. As a basic rule, it is preferable to take 4 years of math, foreign language, usually the trilogy of Physics, Bio and Chem for sciences. However, it really depends on the high school and the colleges that are applicable to your D. It may well be that the schools that she wants are ones where better grades would be better and they don't give a hang that she does not have AP calc . Or maybe she has her eye on some schools where she may need to have it all to have a fighting chance for acceptance. Your counselor should be able to give you some examples of where kids go with the type of schedule, grades, test scores, profile, your D has, and what would make a difference for her. </p>
<p>I say this because I know one young lady who struggled in AP Calc because the conventional wisdom was to take the course. She did not do well in it, but even worse, it hurt her other grades as she spent so much time and effort on the math. For the schools that she wanted, a 4.0 in easier courses or more time bringing up the SAT score a bit would have made more of an impact than the downward grade trend caused by the AP Calc. She got inot most of her schools anyways, but I think she would have gotten some merit money had she focused elsewhere, not to mention the fact that she really had a much more stressful senior year.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I know kids at my sons' school that the counselor point blank told them that with the list of colleges they had, to have a chance, they needed the hardest schedule with 4 years of math, language, etc. Kids in their particular situations just did not get into such schools from that high school without having that kind of resume. Also, if your D has a particular major in mind, it could make a difference which courses she should take. For my son who wanted a BFA program, the calculus was not as important as it was for his buddy who wanted to be an engineer. For him, the calc was essential. The same goes for someone who wants to go into international studies, and is debating whether he should continue with his foreign language. I know a student who got several great remarks from some architecture/engineering type schools for taking a CAD course. It really depend on the kid.</p>
<p>I know. The problem is I that work at the school (not a teacher) and am friends with the counselor. She sometimes seems to fire off quick answers that sound too generalized to me and also seems to get irritated with too many questions (from anyone). That's why I do most of my research on this site and I feel like I know quite a bit now, but I keep pretty quiet so as not to sound like I think I know everything! (which of course, I don't) I take what she tells me with a grain of salt though, becuase there have been times I realized I knew more than she did about certain schools, rules,etc. Yikes! For instance, her daughter, who would like to go to Med School some day, is a senior here now. Looking back on both our kids' schedules, her daughter opted out of many honors classes, but did complete quite a few honors, and only took 3 AP's her whole time here--AP Bio, AP US Hist and AP Calc. She completed 4 years of Spanish so is now taking French 1.</p>
<p>MY d has already taken 4 AP's and likes AP Chem but has no interest in a math/science career. So, I'm wondering why her d could opt out of honors and AP's and now she's telling me my D should take 4 AP's next year. When I gently mentioned that I used her d as an example to my d about why she shouldn't feel pressured to take all AP's, she said her D took the "important AP's that colleges are looking for." I find that odd.</p>
<p>saf, please define what is your "good school". Secondly, HS classes should be about what your D wants to learn rather than what will impress the AO. It is aslo about what kind of peers she enjoys to be in a class. </p>
<p>Most of the advanced kids took AP because they need the challenge and the enjoy being around with other AP kids. </p>
<p>From seeing what my kids' school work, taking 5 ~ 6 AP with one sport and some club is easily doable. My DS is a junior now and he is taking 5 AP, plus a math and a spanish class. He has plenty of time doing other stuff such as running XC and playing chess. There are all As on his report card.</p>
<p>He will take 6 AP next year. There is a girl in his HS who is taking 7 AP this year.</p>
<p>That is true. But one high school's AP classes can't be compared to anothers. Our high school is extremely competitive - there are only a few kids that take THAT many AP's. They are extremely tough. Any kid in our high school taking that many AP's or that many Honors for that matter would NOT have any time to themselves. The few kids that do that typically work until midnight every night. It is not worth it.</p>
<p>I agree talk to the counselor to see how this would play at schools she is thinking about. If it were me, I think AP Calc (with the good teacher) and regular or honors physics (whatever would be the best fit) should be considered. Even if she doesn't like physics, some colleges look for it. If you have the chance to talk to admissions officers at target or similar schools, you could see what they have to say. I agree that 8th grade classes generally don't count towards the units required/recommended by colleges with the exception of foreign language.</p>
<p>Saf, ask the counselor for a scheduled meeting where the two of you can sit and specifically talk. One problem that often happens when you know someone on a social/friendship basis is that a lot of info is passed in casual conversation and in quick fact format. THough that can save time and be very helpful, in some cases, a true meeting is needed. Ask the counselor to look at your D's stats and see where she fits in terms of colleges. Ask your daughter where she is thinking of going to college? Basically, you want to know if the list is on target, wishful thinking, or could stand a few reach schools. If there are schools or majors your D wants, she should be preparing for them in high school.</p>
She has four years of high-school-level math. It's just that one of those years was taken in 8th grade.
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<p>The more selective colleges want to see English, Math, and Science taken each year. Anything less, do at your own risk.</p>
<p>AP Calc is the next class in the sequence. Take AB vs. BC if the child is not interested in math. Statistics (AP or not) could be an alternative. Again, it raises flags, but it is better than nothing.</p>
<p>Hmm, OK I am not a parent, but I do have some perspective on math...I'd say that stuffing an AP science on there is heavily unnecessary, and plenty of people just don't deal with AP science and are perfectly happy. Not a big deal. I think AP math is a very fundamental thing though. Remember, calculus can be useful in a huge, huge variety of subjects just for basic comprehension. BC isn't necessary, but AB really seems a good idea. </p>
<p>I think both statistics and calculus are really bread and butter things that most social sciences majors should have. I mean after all, a polisci major can end up doing quite a few things for a career, and they may not at all be greatly related to polisci. </p>
<p>Lastly, taking a year off math and then trying calculus later is a very, very poor learning choice. And really come on...seriously everyone should do some calculus in high school if possible. Just like I think everyone who can should take some AP English. Subjects like English and math are just good to get some healthy perspective on -- reading and thinking skills improve overall. Science, history, etc, seem more specific, and I'd say can be held off on.</p>