<p>Hello guys, I am an international students coming from China. I am now struggling to make a decision whether I should go to UCB or UVA. I possibly major in applied math and history (or a little economy). I am now thinking about doing some consulting or IB after graduation and then going to graduate school. So the job placement and graduate school prospect are both important to me. However, everything is not fixed. Who knows if one day I wanna be a engineer or car designer? (Indeed that is my dream)</p>
<p>UCB: Really prestigious, huge huge fame in my country. But a current student implies that the budget cut more or less hurts the undergraduate education quality in UCB. There will be many classes taught by TA in first 2 years. The students might be competitive. And the GPA issue(deflation) may hurt my graduate prospect. But Berkeley seems to excel at every aspects of study.</p>
<p>UVA: Less competitive and more relaxing atmosphere, wonderful humanity department. Also, because it is on the East Coast, I suppose it has better chance to do some IB or consulting after graduation. I need these job experiences as wealth in my graduate school application. It might be easier to get a higher GPA in UVA than UCB (Please refute if you do not agree. I hear that from a UCB student so the statement may be biased. </p>
<p>I also have another consideration. To tell the truth, I do not like climate in both places. I do not like big sun in California and wet air in Virginia. So if possible, I may be thinking about transfer to another school of the same tier. (The school I wanna transfer to are not necessarily academically better but these school have climate more favorable to me, like Northwestern or WUSTL?not sure). In UVA, it seems have more freedom because it is easier to double major or transfer.</p>
<p>So I get lost in the face of this choice of life. What is your opinion. Big thanks to your ideas. Your suggestion might light up my way!</p>
<p>If you want to work in Finance or Consulting in the US, my first suggestion would be to become as fluent as possible in English. There are tons of really smart kids from China in US schools looking for these jobs. From what I have seen, the ones that are successful are usually much better communicators in English. Just something to be aware of and work on.</p>
<p>As for UVa vs. UCB, I’m not sure. Either school will give you a chance at Finance or Consulting. If you want to return to China, I would say UCB for sure. It’s much better known over there. Something else to consider is whether you think you want to work on the West or East coast if you stay here after graduation.</p>
<p>I’m just going to comment on the weather here. The two options presented have some of the best weather in the country (though the lack of earthquakes here makes Charlottesville more appealing for me)! I’m not sure if you mean humidity by “wet air” but that isn’t really an issue during the academic year.</p>
<p>The cultures of these two schools are diametrically opposed. UCB has about 10,000 more students than UVA (25,500 v 15,500). 93% of Berkeley’s student body comes from CA whereas about 70% of UVA students are from VA. Both schools are great research institutes; however, their strengths seem to be, for the most part, in different subject fields. The student body as a whole is quite different as well. UCB has the long-standing reputation of being exceedingly liberal and crunchy whereas UVA is rather moderate (perhaps slightly conservative even) and preppy. These are stereotypes, though, and with schools this large, you’re bound to meet kids who share common ground – it just might require a bit more searching. UCB students are, on average, taking five years to graduate because of course availability due to CA’s budget cuts; however, you might get lucky, and this may not be an issue. UVA, conversely, requires students to graduate in four years from what I’ve read on this forum. (There have been budget cuts at all the state flagships, but some, like UVa, have not been affected as badly as others.) I would tend to agree with the poster who stated if your goal is to return to Asia, then UCB would probably be the better option. However, if your desire is to work in business anywhere except the west coast, I’d say UVa would be the more suitable match provided it is a good “fit” with your personality. </p>
<p>BTW…Our D was accepted but chose NOT to go to Northwestern BECAUSE of the weather. For the life if me, I can’t imagine anyone choosing NU for it’s weather; the long winters and bitter cold winds literally take your breath away. There’s no doubt it’s a great school (she almost chose it but decided UVA was a better fit), but to want to go there for its weather seems crazy to this southerner. I suppose different strokes for different folks…</p>
<p>I have to ask, have you visited all there schools you mentioned? (UCB, UVA, WashU)</p>
<p>Maybe it is just me, but I can’t imagine someone picking frigid weather. Being able to rock athletic shorts everyday is pretty awesome. If you plan on going back to Asia to work, UCB is a no brainer. But if you plan on working in the NE, UVA is a hard to pass up…</p>
<p>I completely agree ^^. VA winters are mild; our spring and fall are gorgeous. For what it’s worth, my sister spent one year at Northwestern and then transfered to UC Berkely! Just find it funny that you would opt for the harsher Chicago weather then sunny CA. Good luck with your decision --two fantastic options.</p>
<p>~ depending on whether OP is from Northern China or Southern part of China…so he/she may be used to the colder temp & not used to the humid / warmer temp “down South”
~ UVA : there is no sand storm , hardly any tornado or bitter cold below freezing weather in C’ville, UVA. A bit of humidity during summer but that’s not a big deal. Overall, the BEST weather …I am biased.</p>
<p>~ UCB : some people love the sunny weather there esp. Asian who are not used to the freezing cold</p>
<p>I would say go for the fit, since Berkeley, Michigan, UVA will give you the equal chance of getting into I-Banking/Finace/Consulting jobs. Berkeley has more of a name recognition in Asia due to its top graduate programs and sheer number of Asians residing in California.</p>
<p>When choosing undergraduate however, I would personally lean toward to UVa because I prefer a smaller student-body, and wish to work in the East Coast.</p>
<p>*Washu is a great school, but is less competitive place for high finance jobs compared to UCB/UVA/Michigan/Northwestern</p>
<p>Many international students enjoy traveling through east coast cities in their spare time. Because UVa is on an Amtrak line, you can quickly be in DC, Baltimore, Phila., NYC and Boston. Once you get to DC, there are also several very cheap bus lines to major cities, but I can’t vouch for their safety. At Berkeley, you are great distances from most major cities outside of the Bay Area.</p>
<p>I understand that Berkeley has an extremely high percentage of Asian students, both international and Asian-Americans. You may find that good or bad. UVa has a moderate percentage of Asian-American students. You may wish to look at those stats and look at some of the student organizations targeted towards Asian students.</p>
<p>do you plan to go back to China to work?
is “name recognition” / “brand name” really a big deal for you , in terms of what kind of jobs you may or may not get in China?</p>
<p>Berkeley : more Asian, more chances to speak your language & therefore you will have slightly less chance to practice & improve your English speaking skill. Some Chinese students told me that in colleges w/ tons of Chinese, they never “have to” speak any English the whole day ( unless they have to ask a prof some questions / or being asked to speak in class ! ) Imagine that…</p>
<p>UVA : less Asian, more Americans…that means you have no choice but to speak English more often & therefore improve your English …to me, that’s a real benefit & advantage beside academic & all!</p>
<p>Thanks 6281597, I love your advice. In fact, I crave for a liberal arts education. It will help me explore every possiblity in the future. It will also help me to fit into American society with improved communication skills. East Coast has a better atmosphere for consulting, right? I would very likely not go to McIntire if I choose UVA, rather, I will try to pursue an MBA in a graduate school. And I hope to work in America for several years. If I am back to China, I hope to start my own business. And that seems to have little to do with degrees, haha!</p>
<p>Hello Dean J, nice to see you here! Yes, I don’t like places with high humidity. Anyway, you convince me that it is not a problem. Thanks Dean J!</p>
<p>Hi, eduedm!Good guess! I come from Northern part of China, so I am trying to find a place norther than 40N. The detail you mentioned, “no English for whole day”,urrr, I am shocked! Urrr, I go to America to have the experience of melting into it. And, urrrr, all day of Chinese in UCB seems not positive.</p>
<p>Big thanks to all of you for your excellent posts! Searching forLiberal arts education and social skills that I will learn thru experience is the reason I go to America. I really appreciate your replies and hope you will continue to help me become a wiser decision maker!</p>
<p>Wanyifu - you have two excellent options for your undergraduate education. UVA is located in a small town approximately 2 hours from Washington DC. While the students will all be intelligent you might find some of them to be a bit more provincial than the average student at UC Berkeley. UCB definitely is more well known in Asia and attracts a large number of foreign and Asian American students. Of course, you would meet Chinese students at UVA as well and if lazy could socialize only with Chinese at any university.</p>
<p>Your current plans for your education and career are understandably rather vague. If I recall you are considering: applied math, history, consulting, IB?, engineering, car design, and graduate school. If you are considering obtaining an MBA from a top 10 school keep in mind that most recommend several years of work experience after your undergraduate education. Also, I agree that it would be unnecessary to attend the McIntyre school if you eventually desire an MBA.</p>
<p>If you plan on eventually working in China your biggest asset to Chinese and US companies will be your language ability and cultural understanding. But you can continue to develop those abilities at either UCB or UVA. The main focus for you, in my opinion, should be to try to decide which areas of study are the most interesting. If you eventually want to start your own business or work in car design (mechanical rather than artistic) an engineering degree might be more beneficial than a history degree. I am aware, however, that China graduates many engineers! Applied math might be a good idea if you are interested in the quantitative side of finance.</p>
Students I’ve talked to and accounts I’ve read on this board do not seem to support the claim that budget cuts have impacted undergraduate education quality. In fact, Berkeley has added more undergrad courses this year. Berkeley is also very generous with AP credits. </p>
<p>None of my classes at Cal were taught by a TA [except for elementary English composition courses and a math class I took during summer school]. TAs lead the discussion and laboratory sections. Full professors taught the lectures. I also do not find TAs to be a drawback. Berkeley is one of the best universities in the world and renowned for their graduate education…the TAs you’d be learning from are among the best and brightest young apprentices in their respective fields.</p>
<p>
FYI: San Francisco Bay Area weather is not the same as Southern California weather. Bay Area weather is much cooler/temperate year round with more rain and fog than SoCal.</p>
<p>“UCB definitely is more well known in Asia and attracts a large number of foreign and Asian American students.”</p>
<p>While it is undeniable that UCB is more well known in Asia, it doesn’t actually attract a “large number of foreign students”, in fact only 5% of UCB undergraduates are international students, 88% come from California and only 6% come from other U.S. states. </p>
<p>At UVA, 5.8% are international students, 69% are in-state and 25.2% are from other U.S. states. So the whole “UVA is more provincial” argument is flawed because as the numbers show, the student body at UVA is more “diverse” (and also there are more ethnic minorities enrolled at UVA…the percentage of African-American students at Berkeley is a shame)</p>
<p>“the TAs you’d be learning from are among the best and brightest young apprentices in their respective fields”</p>
<p>I will be TAing a class next fall at Stanford and I can tell you that no one in my cohort is looking forward to being a TA. In fact, it is an unfortunate chore we’re obliged to do for our stipend. This is how most graduate student feel. TAs that actually care and go out of their way to help undergrads are few and far between. I will put my research and my work ahead of my TAing duties. Being taught by TAs is an unfortunate thing that I don’t wish upon anyone. I was lucky to only have one TA during my whole career at UVA and one lecture class (150 people).</p>
<p>UCBChemEGrad–when did you graduate from Berkeley? I have friends who are current senior literature majors who have lit classes in lecture halls! This isn’t normal…</p>
<p>I’m planning to go to UVa in the fall, so that’d be my choice, but no that Applied Math isn’t really an option for a major there. The applied math courses are in the engineering school and are few in number, but most seem to correspond to other, pure math courses anyways. However, the quality of education in math, history, and economics is wonderful, so that shouldn’t really be a deciding factor.</p>