Please suggest some schools to visit!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi all.</p>

<p>I'm looking for a first round of schools to visit this summer to give my daughter a taste of what to look for in schools. She's a rising junior, so this is our first foray in visiting schools. I'm hoping to do two to three schools this summer over one or two short road trips.</p>

<p>For our first trips, I'm leaning towards day-driving distance, so that leads me to look at Ohio and PA for right now. </p>

<p>However, in the big picture, we'd also consider pretty much anything in the northeast, midatlantic, or midwest, so if there are further schools that you think of, please do name them so I can put them in my list for later visits.</p>

<p>The main thing I'm rather desperately looking for is a few schools that might offer some of the taste/flavor of a small/midsize LAC or even Ivy-ish, but that offers substantial merit aid. Because of complicated finances (small business owners with high income but still having very business start up as well as student debt of our own as well as two more very expensive younger children, lol), we will not qualify for any need based aid, but we can NOT afford 50-60k/yr and will <em>not</em> acquire new debt for undergrad. </p>

<p>So, we really need to find schools that offer enough merit aid to get annual expenses down to 25k/yr (max 30k/yr). That seems to mean schools that give at least 20k/yr (if we cobble together a few other smaller merit scholarships), or more realistically 25-30k/yr or even full tuition.</p>

<p>My hope is to find a few of the reach and realistic schools that at least theoretically offer some good merit aid. There is really no point in visiting schools that don't offer it. </p>

<p>I have read enough about Nat'l Merit stuff that I know that if she does qualify for that, then she'll have a number of very affordable options to choose from for safety schools. Our local state uni (WVU) would most likely be entirely free for her. So, big state schools and safety schools should offer some choices. Right now I am looking for some alternatives to those schools -- some smaller schools with a more personal feel.</p>

<p>Can you help me brainstorm on the best schools in the midwest to northeast that DO offer substantial merit aid?</p>

<p>Background on my daughter:
+ highly probable Nat'l Merit territory, but won't know for sure for a long time. (Guesstimating based on high practice SAT scores -- around 650-750 per section on the two practice tests she took last month. She took the SAT for the first time earlier this month, still waiting on scores. We live in WV, so she'll just need 205 or less on the PSAT to qualify here. Of course, that's all on one single test and you could just have a bad day, so no guarantees for NMF, but I am confident she'll attain SATs in that range.)
+ grades and challenge of high school curricula so far so great. She's homeschooled, but by the time apps are due, we'll have plenty of outside validation outside classes, AP tests, subject tests, etc.
+ very strong science/math student (Art of Problem Solving, etc. She hasn't done contests yet, but she'll likely do the AMC12 this year.)
+ strong all around student in all areas.
+ solid but not stellar extracurriculars (a couple serious long term local activities with leadership, but she's not curing cancer or anything)
+ harpist. Very good for our region, but not likely to pursue professionally, although she would like to play in college in ensembles, orchestra, professional gigs, etc.
+ academic interest still very variable. Possibly math, possibly biomedical engineering, possibly biosciences/preveterinary, possibly . . . you get the idea.</p>

<p>Goals for Schools:
+ strong academic focus
+ solid bio sciences
+ small to mid size schools (say 2000 - 10,000) but larger could be OK
+ not in a big city
+ peers who typically go on to grad school, etc. This is a big one.
+ ideally, some good music options for non-majors -- at least ensemble, lessons, and/or orchestra
+ MERIT AID available to bring total cost under 30k max. Ideally lower.
+ NOT a big frat/sorority scene (no more than 20% of students or so).
+ A neutral to crunchy/environmentalist/tolerant/liberal feel </p>

<p>I have a dozen books, and I've spent hours scouring this site and on websites. I hope you guys are smarter than I am because I get more confused the more I read! Please help me get some focus! (And, if there are any great books or websites that list MERIT aid by school, please advise!)</p>

<p>A few schools that have crossed my mind recently:
Kenyon
Juniata
Denison</p>

<p>Neither of these seems to offer more than 20k/yr, but at least that gets somewhere close enough to at least consider visiting (truthfully in the hope that a bit more could be on the table that we don't see on the website).</p>

<p>Can you help me get a longer list? </p>

<p>What should I be considering right now? </p>

<p>Thanks much!!</p>

2

<p>For good academics and good merit aid I would look at Grinnell and Rhodes. Another great value is Smith. Same may be true of other women’s schools, but Smith is one that I know has excellent merit aid notably for women in science (and a very good music program).</p>

<p>Your need based aid assumptions may be correct, but it wouldn’t hurt to run through a few on line calculators. Your need evaluation may change over the next two years – and will change when your younger children are in college – so keep that open ended.</p>

3

<p>Dear god help me – no real SAT score, no stated GPA…</p>

<p>You say “Ivy-ish” yet you want a strong BME program…? You can’t have it all. </p>

<p>Kind of out of the way, so I suppose you’d save it for another trip, but check out University of Rochester.</p>

4

<p>So, we really need to find schools that offer enough merit aid to get annual expenses down to 25k/yr (max 30k/yr). That seems to mean schools that give at least 20k/yr (if we cobble together a few other smaller merit scholarships), or more realistically 25-30k/yr or even full tuition.</p>

<p>forget about cobbling together some small scholarships to add to a school’s merit award to get you to your goal. </p>

<p>First of all, those small private source awards won’t usually be known until after college decisions are made. So, you wouldn’t even know what your D has been awarded until closer to actual graduation. </p>

<p>Secondly, AND most importantly, those private source awards are usually ONE-TIME awards, so that would only help for frosh year. After that, you’d only have the school award. If she wins any of these for frosh year, then great, let them be a bonus that will allow you to have more money to buy dorm stuff. </p>

<p>Thirdly, those private-source awards often have a “need component” which it sounds like you don’t have.</p>

5

<p>+ academic interest still very variable. Possibly math, possibly biomedical engineering, possibly biosciences/preveterinary, possibly . . . you get the idea.</p>

<p>For engineering to be an option, then that will limit your choices since some of those smallish schools (especially LACs) do not have eng’g. </p>

<p>*Your need based aid assumptions may be correct, but it wouldn’t hurt to run through a few on line calculators. *</p>

<p>Online calculators do not work for the self-employed. Since schools “add back in” some business deductions, there wouldn’t be a way to get close to a good estimate.</p>

<p>*I have read enough about Nat’l Merit stuff that I know that if she does qualify for that, then she’ll have a number of very affordable options to choose from for safety schools. </p>

<p>Our local state uni (WVU) would most likely be entirely free for her. So, big state schools and safety schools should offer some choices. Right now I am looking for some alternatives to those schools – some smaller schools with a more personal feel.*</p>

<p>Those schools will likely have a good-sized Greek presence. However, even if your D doesn’t want to pledge, there certainly would be a large number of other students who also don’t pledge.</p>

6

<p>Leaving BME on the table will focus your search since you will need to find engineering schools. There are some that meet her needs and the fact that she is a female can help with admissions and merit aid, especially at schools with a gender imbalance :)</p>

<p>For STEM focused schools where she would get the best boost - CMU, Case Western, RPI, WPI. WPI sounds like a good fit, and the Tufts veterinary school is a few miles away. [Pre-Health:</a> Pre-Veterinary - WPI](<a href=“http://www.wpi.edu/academics/prehealth/prevet.html]Pre-Health:”>http://www.wpi.edu/academics/prehealth/prevet.html)</p>

<p>Consider Lafayette, Bucknell, Union - though they have a fairly large Greek life atmosphere, these have a small LAC feel to them. I don’t think Bucknell is good with merit, Lafayette can be ( [Lafayette</a> Scholarships · Tuition & Aid · Lafayette College](<a href=“http://finaid.lafayette.edu/financing-your-education/types-of-financial-aid/scholarships/]Lafayette”>http://finaid.lafayette.edu/financing-your-education/types-of-financial-aid/scholarships/)), don’t know about Union.</p>

<p>Small universities like U. Rochester…</p>

7

<p>BME will need a larger school and likely a research U… some research Us are smaller, but that would equal a medium sized school overall.</p>

<p>For general academics and decent merit aid, consider Wooster in Ohio. Lafayette, Ursinus, and Bucknell (all in PA) are possibilities. Of those, I suspect she might like Bucknell the best, but one never knows. Juniata is good to have on your list.</p>

<p>URochester is a good suggestion, but it’s in a city (has its own campus though) and it’s a research U - not a small LAC. You could end up visiting it just to compare the differences in schools. My middle son is there. He didn’t really want a city (or northern) location, but fell in love after a visit and still loves it.</p>

<p>FWIW, I think it’s a great idea to start visiting colleges now - even without “real” scores. :wink: You can decide on schools to apply to after scores, but then you’ll have an idea of what she likes.</p>

8

<p>BeantownGirl and I were posting at the same time… and obviously, some of the same schools came to mind (she knows more of the northeastern schools than I do). I’m in PA and know more about local schools where local kids tend to go. ;)</p>

<p>Case Western and CMU are definitely city schools. They could give you a comparison if you stopped by.</p>

9

<p>Carleton is on my list for the strong sciences, the gorgeous campus, it is a top ranked school, small class sizes, most students go to grad school, not far from MPLS, you get the idea. If you do not mind MN, you might consider there. And then there is Grinnell. Similar, but more rural.</p>

10

<p>I know you are trying to give her a look at smaller schools, but if you are unsure about major and engineering still on table then I would really focus on larger schools with strong honors program. University of South Carolina honors is top in country, all accepted get some scholarship and can stack with Leiber for NMF. D has found it to be very personal and supportive. Most top scholarships for OOS students waive/reduce OOS tuition costs. Leiber plus even reduced tuition gets you to your goal. I’m sure there are other state schools that would be similar. For small schools in SC also look at Furman and Wofford for good science…prices would be tight for you at Furman even with merit, not as familiar with Wofford</p>

<p>Washington and Lee has great merit aid for top students and very supportive of students who want to continue with music but not as major. D has several good friends from WV. However, heavily Greek.</p>

11

<p>Thanks all for your thoughts so far!! Please keep them coming, lol.</p>

<p>Yes, I know it is very vague. I will update with her first SAT scores when they come out on the 20th, but even then, these were just scores from Sophomore years June, so presumably they, too, will change in the next 18 months.</p>

<p>As I said, we homeschool, so grades, etc, are not terribly relevant as I don’t think the colleges put as much weight in them as they typically do. (They need/want validation of Mommy-As and Mommy-transcripts via test scores and/or outside classes.) She has all As thus far, and I expect/hope she’ll maintain that. She will take 4 credits of AP this coming Junior year (Physics B, Calculus BC, Macr & Micro, and English Lang & Comp). The English and the Calculus, as well as a Spanish 4 class, will be taken with reputable outside classes, and so we’ll have outside grades from those. Depending on how I do the weighting (need to research that) for those APs and for all the “honors” classes she takes, her wgpa by the time she is applying might be more like 4.3 or something if she continues all with all As. So far, I’ve just not bothered with numbers as I haven’t needed a transcript for her. So, for grades, I think it’s safe to assume straight As, so uwgpa of 4.0. And valedictorian of her class of one, lol.</p>

<p>I know her career goals are very vague, too. I like to encourage her to keep her options open, lol, since she is still unfocused in that area. </p>

<p>So far as aid changing . . . We have done a couple rough guesses with the online calculators, and they were exceedingly depressing. Being small business owners makes taxes and controlling taxable income incredibly unpredictable and hard to control. This year, we ended up with an increased taxable income of 25% over last year (and so huge tax bill), mostly by complete surprise (business revenue was up more like 10% . . . ) We might be eligible for some need-based aid when we have multiple kids in college; it makes me wish we’d had triplets instead of having one kid at a time. We’ll always fill out the forms and hope for the best, but we can’t have the kids choose a school counting on need based aid, so I figure it is best to select schools with merit aid available if possible.</p>

<p>Re: engineering. Yes, I know that makes things complicated, lol. I hope things are clearer a year from now when she’ll need to make some actual choices. Olin is at the top of my list if she ends up deciding that engineering is her choice.</p>

<p>Thanks again! I really appreciate the brainstorming, and I will be researching your suggestions!!</p>

12

<p>MMom, we’re in a similar situation, except my D is a rising senior. 3.75 GPA, IB diploma, 2110 SATs (she’ll take them one more time). We’re looking at small LACs in the same geographical area (PA, OH, NY, VA, NC) as you. We’re not expecting any need-based aid. Honestly, if she can get accepted to a few of the schools that other posters have mentioned and we can keep the cost close to $40k year, I’ll be ecstatic. If not, state flagship will probably have to do. Luckily, she’s visited and would be ok going there. Good luck.</p>

13

<p>I’d check out Muhlenberg and Dickinson when you are in PA. I’d also suggest Goucher in MD.Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell, Villanova are also great schools but may not be as much the "granola"vibe you are going for and you may not get the same level of merit aid.</p>

<p>Also a number of schools reduce merit aid by a percentage of outside scholarships received so I’m not sure your plan will work. Best to focus on a place where you can qualify for enough merit aid from the school to make the finances work.</p>

14

<p>Might look at Holy Cross-top 30 lac with great campus 1 hour from Boston. HC HAS NO FRATS/sororities, offers great science programs and tremendous alumni network. Holy Cross is a Jesuit school smaller version of Georgetown but easier to get into. HC is one of the very few LAC’S that is need-blind for admissions same as Ivies. Don’t have to be religious at Holy Cross which actively seeks diversity. Holy Cross website is very informative.</p>

15

<p>I promised to update with her first SAT scores, so here they are: 2100, with 720 math, 680 CR, 700 writing. </p>

<p>Her essay was just an 8 with no targeted essay prep, and the mc portion of writing was 73. I didn’t want her to spend time yet on targeted essay prep yet since there is no essay on the PSAT, but she will do essay prep before she retakes them next spring. </p>

<p>Since WV’s PSAT cutoff is rather low at 204ish, she looks to be in safe territory to qualify for NM so long as she doesn’t have a bad day in October. This SAT score should also work as the corroborating SAT score assuming she gets the PSAT score she needs in October. </p>

<p>Yay!</p>

<p>Her score is also good enough to guarantee her free tuition at our state flagship (where she could live at home or a second local residence we own for free) and to put her in the running for full ride merit scholarships there, so that is encouraging to be on track for a solid safety school.</p>

<p>She had minimal preparation (two practice tests), and has 18 more months to improve her scores before application time. She will be doing targeted PSAT prep until the test in October, then we will revisit overall SAT and also ACT prep and also focus on subject tests, etc. </p>

<p>Thanks so much for the ideas. Please keep them coming!</p>

<p>FWIW, we are visiting U Pitt next week and U Richmond in August. They each offer great merit aid and are easy for us to visit. I am still trying to figure out which other smaller schools we could visit in a single trip this summer. I am studying your recommendations and researching! Thank you!</p>

16

<p>That’s a good first score and I’ll admit to being envious that you live in a low PSAT score cut off state…</p>

<p>All that aside, are you looking for a school to visit en route to URichmond or Pitt or another trip? If another trip, consider Wooster (nice LAC) or Case Western (great for BME) in OH.</p>