Please suggest some universities

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm trying to come up with a long list of possible universities. D is a junior. We have some reaches in mind, but no idea for state schools, safeties, or some which aren't total reaches, but might be an even better fit. Can you tell my thoughts on this are scattered? lol For some more info, D will be a math major (no idea beyond that, but she enjoys algebra, calculus, etc.), might double major in creative writing and minor in fine/studio art.</p>

<p>Ideally this would be a university as they will offer graduate level math classes and she'll have finished, or be close to finishing, the courses offered at the AA level before high school graduation. Ideally she'll be able to get credit for the courses she's taking at the community college, but she knows that may not happen at all the schools she'll apply to, and for others, each course syllabus will be evaluated individually.</p>

<p>As far as location, anywhere in the 48 is okay. Rural, urban, or somewhere in the middle of those is okay and depends more on the individual university. She likes nice dorms - who doesn't? - and good food, but the focus would be on having the above majors, good teachers who are accessible, a relatively happy group of students. D is Catholic, but school does not have to be religious as long as there is a Catholic group on campus. If music lessons, and practice rooms, are available for non-music majors, that would be a plus. An intellectually stimulating environment would be great, but she could do without any cutthroat competition. Would prefer all social activities not be centered around drinking. Not interested in sports, but it's okay if the rest of the school is.</p>

<p>As for her stats, test scores are still unknown and we won't really have a better idea until early summer as she'll take the tests this spring. Hoping for over 2100 and 32 plus. High school GPA will probably be 4.0 or close to that unweighted. Community college GPA should be about the same. Some good ECs and should be wanted by a college looking for diversity and uniqueness and which can provide a full ride, or close to that with her loans and campus work. </p>

<p>Any suggestions?</p>

2

<p>How much can your family pay? How much will the colleges think that your family can pay?</p>

<p>There are several threads on guaranteed merit and full-rides in the Financial Aid Forum. I’d suggest she start there.</p>

3

<p>

</p>

<p>How important is this?</p>

<p>I ask because an undergraduate math major – and most of the other things your daughter is looking for – are available at a very large number of colleges.</p>

<p>But not all colleges have a major in creative writing. Is the availability of such a major important to her, or is it enough if several creative writing courses are available?</p>

<p>Also, some fine/studio art major programs are so intense that a student for whom this is a secondary interest might not want to be choose this major. If the option of double majoring in this subject is important to your daughter, she should look at individual colleges’ programs in detail.</p>

4

<p>Others may disagree but I would suggest avoiding a long list, and keeping it manageable.</p>

<p>Have you looked at college guides like Princeton Review, Barron’s, etc? Books like “Colleges that Change Lives” and “Beyond the Ivies” and “Cool Colleges” can be helpful. Another book that is excellent for music and art is “Creative Colleges.”</p>

<p>There are so many schools that fit your criteria that I would not know where to start.</p>

5

<p>Well, here is the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; thread for safeties.</p>

<p>But an important factor is your cost constraint and financial aid situation (including state of residency).</p>

<p>As you surmised due to her advanced progress in math, a research university with a strong graduate program in math would likely be the best fit, due to her likely wanting to take graduate level courses and do research. She would likely go directly to the small upper division courses in math, skipping most or all of the large lower division courses (which are mainly “service courses” for students majoring in engineering, physics, economics, etc.).</p>

6

<p>Sounds like a Liberal Arts College would be a better fit for her then a university since she may find that she can’t take the double major/minor combo easily at a university. I think she may find that math in college is still going to be a challenge for her even after taking classes at a community college as most of those classes are offered in many high schools across the country. You may also find that classes in her major won’t transfer for major course so she may end up repeating those classes anyway. We found that at every college our son applied to. Our son is planning on majoring in math and MOST schools he looked at suggest that they retake the AP BC Calc equivalent and other higher level classes in college because they want them to learn the course their way for future classes. Grad level classes may not be necessary in other words.</p>

<p>I would start my search with the Jesuit Colleges [Association</a> of Jesuit Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.ajcunet.edu/]Association”>http://www.ajcunet.edu/) . Then move out to other Catholic Institutions. If she is active in her faith that she wants programming on campus, why not go all the way.</p>

<p>I would also suggest that she look into the actuarial science field. As a female in that field she can pretty much write her own ticket. This is a good site to start exploring Catholic programs that offer an actuarial program. [SOA</a> - Society of Actuaries - College Listing](<a href=“http://www.soa.org/Education/Resources/actuarial-colleges/actuarial-college-listings-details.aspx]SOA”>Universities & Colleges with Actuarial Programs (UCAP) | SOA)</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the replies. </p>

<p>

[QUOTE=happymomof1]

How much can your family pay? How much will the colleges think that your family can pay?</p>

<p>There are several threads on guaranteed merit and full-rides in the Financial Aid Forum. I’d suggest she start there.

[QUOTE]
</p>

<p>The answer to both of the questions is $0. Yes, I’ve looked at the lists mentioned and from that I got a few, but those are mostly reaches.</p>

<p>I still can’t figure out how to quote.</p>

8

<p>SoMuch2Learn–run the FAFSA (Federal Financial Aid) Forecaster and see what the government thinks you can pay :D. You REALLY need to know that number. If your number is really zero or close to it, start looking at schools that meet 100% of your need. Notre Dame is one and depending on test scores might be a great fit. Have her take an online ACT or SAT test too. Get a baseline number so you have realistic colleges in mind. Private schools will probably be the least expensive option for you if you really have no or low expected family contributions. [Colleges</a> That Claim to Meet Full Financial Need - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2012/02/16/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need]Colleges”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2012/02/16/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need)</p>

<p>Again, back to the Catholic schools, they generally have VERY large endowments and are very generous with financial aid.</p>

9

<p>

[QUOTE=Marian]

How important is this?</p>

<p>I ask because an undergraduate math major – and most of the other things your daughter is looking for – are available at a very large number of colleges.</p>

<p>But not all colleges have a major in creative writing. Is the availability of such a major important to her, or is it enough if several creative writing courses are available?</p>

<p>Also, some fine/studio art major programs are so intense that a student for whom this is a secondary interest might not want to be choose this major. If the option of double majoring in this subject is important to your daughter, she should look at individual colleges’ programs in detail.

[QUOTE]
</p>

<p>No, not all offer a major, so enough courses or a minor could work. She’s a talented, although unschooled, artist. She’s not afraid of hard work or challenges and would be taking the art classes for her own benefit. The art would likely not be a major, but a minor or she might even just take the courses which interest her.</p>

10

<p>Compmom wrote: </p>

<p>"Others may disagree but I would suggest avoiding a long list, and keeping it manageable.</p>

<p>Have you looked at college guides like Princeton Review, Barron’s, etc? Books like “Colleges that Change Lives” and “Beyond the Ivies” and “Cool Colleges” can be helpful. Another book that is excellent for music and art is “Creative Colleges.”</p>

<p>There are so many schools that fit your criteria that I would not know where to start. "</p>

<p>I’d like to start with a long list and then narrow it down. Right now, I feel like I’m missing a lot which might be a great fit only because I’m not familiar with them.</p>

<p>We do have a college guide book (I think it’s Fiske’s) which we use, but I think I’ll need to check out some of the others you’ve mentioned. Thank you for the suggestions.</p>

11

<p>I was just going to suggest Fiske’s, it has been our bible through two college searches. :)</p>

12

<p>^ : ) </p>

<p>need 10 characters lol</p>

13

<p>momfromtexas wrote the book on finding merit-based aid. The techniques described in these two threads are timeless:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>When the family cannot contribute anything, then the options generally boil down to places that will shell out a lot of aid (either those reach schools that offer a lot of need-based aid, or those not-reachy ones that offer guaranteed merit aid), or a local institution that the kid can commute to and save on living costs. In this situation, it is harder to find a “match” type because of the financial need. Many places that could be a match, and might come up with the aid your family needs don’t have clearly predictable aid/scholarship policies.</p>

<p>Math majors can be tricky at LACs because there might not be enough truly advanced courses to satisfy the student. Right now there is a thread on Math majors right here in the Parents forum that could be worth your time to read through.</p>

<p>The grandson of family friends burned through all of the offerings at his local CC by the time he left HS, and ended up at University of Miami. He was very happy there and now is in the grad school of his dreams. U of Miami does have some big merit scholarships, so it may be worth putting on your daughter’s list.</p>

14

<p>ucbalumnus wrote:</p>

<p>"Well, here is the Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships thread for safeties.</p>

<p>But an important factor is your cost constraint and financial aid situation (including state of residency).</p>

<p>As you surmised due to her advanced progress in math, a research university with a strong graduate program in math would likely be the best fit, due to her likely wanting to take graduate level courses and do research. She would likely go directly to the small upper division courses in math, skipping most or all of the large lower division courses (which are mainly “service courses” for students majoring in engineering, physics, economics, etc.). "</p>

<p>Thank you for the link to the thread. I had read through that, but many of the schools mentioned I’m not familiar with. I know that most, if not all, universities have mathematics majors, but what I don’t know is the reputation of their programs. For example, Alabama is known for attracting top students with their generous merit aid, but how is their math program? Which campus is the best for math and is it the one which offers the most merit or not? How is the honors college and how is it viewed by employers who are also looking at applications from the top name schools? This is the kind of info it’s hard to get from the college books, websites, etc… I know that hiring decisions are made on an individual basis, but a schools reputation/rigor does factor in as well.</p>

<p>Yes, hopefully most universities will allow her to just continue from where she’s left off.</p>

15

<p>SteveMA wrote:</p>

<p>" Sounds like a Liberal Arts College would be a better fit for her then a university since she may find that she can’t take the double major/minor combo easily at a university. I think she may find that math in college is still going to be a challenge for her even after taking classes at a community college as most of those classes are offered in many high schools across the country. You may also find that classes in her major won’t transfer for major course so she may end up repeating those classes anyway. We found that at every college our son applied to. Our son is planning on majoring in math and MOST schools he looked at suggest that they retake the AP BC Calc equivalent and other higher level classes in college because they want them to learn the course their way for future classes. Grad level classes may not be necessary in other words.</p>

<p>I would start my search with the Jesuit Colleges Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities . Then move out to other Catholic Institutions. If she is active in her faith that she wants programming on campus, why not go all the way.</p>

<p>I would also suggest that she look into the actuarial science field. As a female in that field she can pretty much write her own ticket. This is a good site to start exploring Catholic programs that offer an actuarial program. SOA - Society of Actuaries - College Listing"</p>

<p>Yes, her math courses have not been at the level of MIT, so I would expect that they and some others would expect her to repeat the classes, but they have been thorough and she’s chosen some tough professors. All have been taken on campus and not at a high school. She doesn’t have MIT on her list because she doesn’t think of herself as being on that level. I think she’s wrong.</p>

<p>Notre Dame is definitely on her list. But beyond that, I don’t know which to look at.<br>
Any suggestions for Catholic universities which excel in the math department? Georgetown? Boston U? Would Holy Cross offer enough on the graduate level or would her options for higher math be limited? </p>

<p>Yes, we’re keeping an open mind on actuarial science. She hasn’t taken a statistics course yet, but hopefully will next year. Her interest in math seems to decrease once dollar signs are involved, but that of course may change. Her love for math seems to be calculus, algebra, etc., so I’m thinking applied mathematics may be where she ends up. She’s also open to teaching at colleges, which would mean going for her doctorate. At 16 it’s hard to know what you want to do.</p>

<p>In answer to your second post, it really is $0. I guess that has the dubious distinction of being “good” for something. lol </p>

<p>Yes, Notre Dame is “need blind” and does offer full need. It’s no. 1 on her list so far. But it’s definitely a reach even though admission is 24%. So many, with really great stats, aren’t admitted.</p>

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<p>SoMuchToLearn - everything your D wants screamed University of Rochester to me. I have two sons there majoring in math.</p>

<p>They have a great math department, and students can start rigorous proof based courses from day one. The professors are beyond available - very encouraging and approachable. My kids have even gotten to know profs they don’t have for class by hanging out in the math lounge. She’ll be able to take as many graduate classes as she’s able to fit in while she’s there. </p>

<p>[University</a> of Rochester Department of Mathematics](<a href=“http://www.math.rochester.edu/]University”>http://www.math.rochester.edu/)</p>

<p>Their curriculum requirements are flexible enough to make double majoring doable and quite common, and they do offer an English major with a concentration in Creative Writing. I’ve heard good things about the creative writing profs, but don’t really know much beyond that. They also offer studio art classes and a studio arts major. Her creative writing or studio arts classes could satisfy her humanities cluster (cluster = 3 related courses), and her math degree would satisfy the natural sciences, so all she would have left for “gen ed” type requirements would be a cluster (3 courses) in social sciences) and the freshman writing class. She could get a double major in arts, writing, or music, or a minor or cluster in any of them. Or just take individual classes.</p>

<p>[Department</a> of English](<a href=“http://www.rochester.edu/College/ENG/undergrad/undergraduate_majors.html#cwrev]Department”>http://www.rochester.edu/College/ENG/undergrad/undergraduate_majors.html#cwrev)
[Undergraduate</a> Program in Studio Arts : University of Rochester](<a href=“Undergraduate Program : Department of Art and Art History : University of Rochester”>Undergraduate Program : Department of Art and Art History : University of Rochester)</p>

<p>They have music ensembles, classes, and lessons on the River Campus (where she’d be), and also, students can audition for lessons at the Eastman School of Music (top notch music school), which is part of University of Rochester. The Eastman campus is downtown, but the improved shuttle bus schedule gets student there directly in about 15 minutes, running a few times an hour for free. </p>

<p>Rochester is full of smart students are are really into whatever they happen to be into. There are plenty of religious groups and services at the Interfaith Chapel, including two Catholic services every Sunday. As far as drinking, it does exist on campus, of course, but it isn’t the be all end all of social activities like it is on some campuses. </p>

<p>Her stats are good, and Rochester likes interesting EC’s and “diversity and uniqueness.” Rochester can be VERY generous with scholarships and need based aid for students they are excited about (private message me for details on that). </p>

<p>Really - I read these boards a lot and don’t remember seeing anyone describe a student in such a way that made me immediately think they’d be such a great good fit for UR.</p>

17

<p>Happymomof1 wrote:</p>

<p>"momfromtexas wrote the book on finding merit-based aid. The techniques described in these two threads are timeless:
What I’ve learned about full-ride scholarships
Update on What I learned about free ride scholarships</p>

<p>When the family cannot contribute anything, then the options generally boil down to places that will shell out a lot of aid (either those reach schools that offer a lot of need-based aid, or those not-reachy ones that offer guaranteed merit aid), or a local institution that the kid can commute to and save on living costs. In this situation, it is harder to find a “match” type because of the financial need. Many places that could be a match, and might come up with the aid your family needs don’t have clearly predictable aid/scholarship policies.</p>

<p>Math majors can be tricky at LACs because there might not be enough truly advanced courses to satisfy the student. Right now there is a thread on Math majors right here in the Parents forum that could be worth your time to read through.</p>

<p>The grandson of family friends burned through all of the offerings at his local CC by the time he left HS, and ended up at University of Miami. He was very happy there and now is in the grad school of his dreams. U of Miami does have some big merit scholarships, so it may be worth putting on your daughter’s list."</p>

<p>Thank you! I will check out the momfromtexas threads and the math thead. Does U of Miami have a good reputation? I know that their ratings have been steadily climbing in recent years. We’ll check it out. Thanks!</p>

<p>Yes, we’ve been shying away from LAC’s because of that concern. I wonder if there are some which have an arrangement with a nearby Univ for courses not offered on campus.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>Not necessarily. It depends on how extensive the major and breadth requirements are at the school, which is independent of whether the school is a LAC or research university.</p>

<p>LACs are likely to be poor fits for this student because she appears to be at least two years ahead in math and will likely exhaust the math offerings at a LAC, and will probably want to take graduate courses and do graduate level research as an undergraduate.</p>

<p>If a PhD program in math is a possible destination, it may be worth PMing a poster named b@r!um about what schools may be good for that.</p>

19

<p>PinotNoir wrote:</p>

<p>well lots and then …
"Really - I read these boards a lot and don’t remember seeing anyone describe a student in such a way that made me immediately think they’d be such a great good fit for UR. "</p>

<p>Thank you so much for all the info and links! We’ll definitely look into U of Rochester.</p>

20

<p>

</p>

<p>Running the net price calculator on each college’s web site to get need-based financial aid is important.</p>

<p>Also, what is your state of residency? Among public schools, few give decent financial aid to out-of-state students (UNC-CH and Virginia may be exceptions), though some offer large guaranteed or competitive merit scholarships. But in-state public schools may be more generous, depending on the state.</p>