Plebe Summer vs. Boot Camp?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>It seems like Plebe Summer is a lot easier than Navy boot camp, and especially Marine Corps boot camp. Since Midshipmen are going to be future leaders of the people going through enlisted boot camp, shouldn't it be equivilent, if not harder? Both are designed to change a civilian into a member of the military society, except one will have a lot more responsibility to hold in the future. </p>

<p>About 5 months ago I was talking to an '08 Midshipmen. He was prior enlisted 2 years, and he told me that Plebe Summer was "a joke". </p>

<p>And if you have ever seen some of R Lee Ermey's videos on youtube (that SDI in Full Metal Jacket, a Gunnery Sergeant in real life) in a couple of them he says things like "I'm not an officer, I actually work for a living!"</p>

2

<p>Aside from the fact that Boot Camp is 8 weeks, and Plebe Year is 8 months. And that during that 8 months (and for 3 years after the fact), there are a myriad of difficult classes that must not only be passed, but excelled in.</p>

3

<p>Plebe Summer is only one part of plebe year. I think plebe year is a different monster when it comes to mental toughness. Most midshipmen demonstrate physical prowess upon entering by excelling in sports in their high school days and most of them motivate themselves to stay in shape. The physical aspect is really not the one that needs to be sharpened.</p>

<p>Mental fortitude and determination are the beasts that are tackled during plebe summer and the year. The mid (now ENS) you talked to was strictly talking about the day to day, cumulative events that occured. I didn't think plebe year was easy, and I wasn't a sh**screen either.</p>

4

<p>It is not intended to be "Boot Camp" GNXC has it right. It is about the mental side. Plebe Summer and Year and even into youngster year about learning to follow so that you can learn to lead. Sharpening the mid, learning how to make decisions, sometimes with no time to think. </p>

<p>Why would anyone think it was supposed to be Boot Camp. What about ROTC or OCS? Its called officer training. Learning to be the next generation of Leaders. Mental fortitude and toughness.</p>

<p>Plebe Summer and Plebe year were not easy. Maybe not that physically strenuous, as most of us are in shape. But from the mental exhaustion, stress and unbelievable balancing act it certainly was not "easy"</p>

5

<p>Well from my perspective from the candidate visit at the Naval Academy the prior enlisted seemed to be a lot more disciplined than the ones who came straight out of high school. The prior enlisted would follow the rules but the fresh-out-of-high-school ones seemed to be goofing off, smoking cigars whenever possible, and playing video games whenever nobody was looking. </p>

<p>And yes, my host was a 4th class, plebe. </p>

<p>No where did I say Plebe Summer was "easy". I said easier. No need for quotation marks around "easy". </p>

<p>And I'm just looking at these videos</p>

<p>Plebe Summer with an angry instructor at 0:55-1:12
YouTube</a> - Naval Academy Plebes Prepare Over Summer</p>

<p>MCRDSD with an angry instructor at 1:17-1:30
YouTube</a> - Marines Training part 1</p>

<p>the atmosphere seems to be a lot different. </p>

<p>But somehow "plebe year" got factored into this discussion even though I was comparing plebe summer vs. boot camp. So I guess the consensus is that though enlisted boot camp is longer and harder than plebe summer, plebe year is what makes up for it because of the challenging classes and the strain on thinking/mental abilities?</p>

<p>Thanks,
Long</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
Mental fortitude and determination are the beasts that are tackled during plebe summer and the year. The mid (now ENS) you talked to was strictly talking about the day to day, cumulative events that occured. I didn't think plebe year was easy, and I wasn't a sh**screen either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good point. I don't think anyone is going to make an argument comparing plebe summer to boot camp. I remember if you asked me to characterize the summer in one word my answer was "annoying." It helped that I was I was a runner and could max the prt because theres a number of people who have trouble keeping up or just barely keeping up... Oh yeah, and we had no A/C, which is kinda funny because I dont remember it being a huge problem at the time, but as a cadre we lost A/C for one night and it felt absolutely unbearable. Anyway though, overall plebe summer is a lot of running around, briefs, getting yelled at, rates and PT. Other than that though, theres not a whole lot more thats stressful... </p>

<p>The toughest part of plebe summer/year wasn't any one thing or day or week. It was the endless grind that just kinda wore on you after a while. Week after week after week of all calls. Trying to run back from class and be on time with my favorite 2/c who didnt seem to care when class let out, while making sure I had 6 meals in advance memorized. Endless Chemistry class with a woman who I was pretty sure was the devil. Months of xc practice every day, which really wears on you when your a walk on.... Everything just kinda piles up over time. If you want it and are willing to work hard theres no reason why you can't get through the year, but if your constantly thinking about what your friends are doing, or the fact that your mom paid for your registration at State U in case the summer didn't work out then it may get a lot harder to keep going.</p>

7

<p>Nice post itlstallion.</p>

8

<p>nice videos! i think boot camp is more physical in its 8 weeks than plebe summer, but plebe summer is more mental and trying to get you to "break down"</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
It seems like Plebe Summer is a lot easier than Navy boot camp

[/quote]
My bad - a lot easier left me with the impression you think Plebe Summer/Year is easy. A lot easier in what way - physical then ya probably, mentally and it is a different story.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well from my perspective from the candidate visit at the Naval Academy the prior enlisted seemed to be a lot more disciplined than the ones who came straight out of high school.

[/quote]
That is a very big generalization for a 36 hour visit. Both groups have their strengths and faults. </p>

<p>Again, it is not supposed to be boot camp. If that was your impression then maybe you need to do some more research.</p>

<p>itlstallion422 nice way to sum it up - annoying. The whole fricken year was annoying.</p>

10

<p>i am sure that those guys that started boot camp first were immatrue when they started it just like the pepole at the naval academy</p>

11

<p>It's interesting that you say that (Navy) Boot Camp is easier than Plebe Summer. One of my roommates, who is a prior Navy nuke, said he thought plebe summer much harder, especially from a physical standpoint. I guess it depends who you ask. USMC Boot Camp is definitely more intense than Plebe Summer, but you have to remember that their objectives are different. Enlisted Marines are being trained to obey orders without hesitation, while midshipmen must learn to also think independently, as well. As such, the ways that midshipmen are taught differ from the ways that recruits are instructed. Once Boot Camp is over, the new Marines or Sailors go directly into the fleet; once plebe summer is over, plebes must endure a full nine months of development as followers; then another three years learning to be leaders; then their specialty school (flight, nuke, TBS, etc) after that before they get to an operational unit. There is a method to the madness.
One last point. It seems to me that midshipmen are treated more "respectfully," the best word that I can come up with. They are addressed as Mr. or Miss. They are not "screamed at" like the Marines in the video (though there is a significant amount of yelling during plebe summer). The mental pressure is subtle yet very real. This is just the beginning of the shaping of an officer and it differs greatly than how a recruit is shaped...but there is a reason for it.</p>

12

<p>Sorry, take my comment with "grain of salt" i have never been to plebe summer or boot camp i just made my assumption on what i have heard from other people.</p>

<p>haha, i think my dad (he was in the navy) described it perfectly- "it is just a game" haha i think that pretty much sums it up for all the military training mind games.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
One last point. It seems to me that midshipmen are treated more "respectfully," the best word that I can come up with. They are addressed as Mr. or Miss. They are not "screamed at" like the Marines in the video (though there is a significant amount of yelling during plebe summer). The mental pressure is subtle yet very real. This is just the beginning of the shaping of an officer and it differs greatly than how a recruit is shaped...but there is a reason for it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting comment. There definitely is some yelling going on, atleast early on. Then after about 5 days the cadre realize they can no longer talk. Even more than that though, its impossible to keep intensity at 100% for three to four weeks. You also get to know your plebes, and kinda start to take on a different role. However, the mind games definitely don't stop. If you know what your doing its easy to get in people's heads.</p>

14

<p>Looking back many years later, I'd have to say that plebe ac year was more challenging than plebe summer. Plebe summer (and boot camp), all you have to do is "play the game." Plebe year, you have to do most of what you do during the summer in terms of rates, athletics, come-arounds, spirit activities, etc. AND you have to take a tough academic course load and pass/excel. </p>

<p>I personally found the most difficult time to be Jan/Feb of plebe year. You've been home for winter break where you were reminded what the "real world" is like and the life your friends have at civilian college. You come back to USNA and: (1) it's cold and dark, (2) you get your first semester grades and realize you are no longer getting all As and may, in fact, be getting Cs and Ds, (3) you're still a plebe, still doing chow calls and come-arounds, and (4) everyone else is equally miserable and takes it out on you.</p>

<p>Finally, toughness is in the eyes of the beholder. What makes boot camp or plebe summer "tough?" Physical demands? Lots of yelling? Lack of freedom? Time management? I have little doubt that the overwhelming majority of plebes could easily survive USN or USMC boot camp, had that been the path they chose. But, as those above have well stated, the purposes of plebe summer and boot camp are very different. </p>

<p>Thus, because plebe summer is merely the "entrance" to four years of training to earn a college degree while learning to become an officer, it's not really appropriate to compare it to boot camp, which is a short course designed to integrate future enlisted into the military.</p>

15

<p>Perspectives on 2012 Plebe Summer</p>

<p>Son, who is detailer, called last night. He had to laugh about this year's plebe summer. Detailers had been instructed that Plebes: </p>

<p>Were not to be "startled" awake in the morning. That is, no artificially abrupt noises such as banging of garbage can, horns, whistles, etc. </p>

<p>Were "permitted" to close the doors to their rooms. Although this had to be clarified because OIC initially said the Plebes "can" close thier doors. Note, new-to-government parents that these distinctions are important to government employees because one implies a "right" to close the door--as in the Plebes could close their doors at any time--and the other implies a privilege, which can be taken away as punishment.</p>

<p>He also related a story wherein the movement of a Plebe platoon was being interfered with by a car on the Academy grounds. That is, a driver kept tryng to go around the formation. Finally, the midn officer challenged the driver to halt. The driver then proceeded to bump the Midn. leader with his car in an effort to get him to move. The driver suggested that it wasn't REALLY a military unit marching as it was composed of only Plebes and that he should be permitted to pass.</p>

<p>[Note that formations on the yard have right of way over vehicle movements.]</p>

<p>Who committed this transgression? [1] An ignorant parent, [2] An aide--a LT.--to the supt., or [3] another urban legend furthered by mids who experience these events first-hand and fail to report them up th eCOC? </p>

<p>Son did hav some very complimentary thing to say about his group of Plebes, as in trying very hard, very talented group of "kids", and learning very quickly.
Everybody is tired.</p>

<p>He felt sorry for them on 7/4 in that it rained a great deal of the time and [I may have the timing wrong here] the fireworks were initiall canceled or delayed so plebes were marched into Bancroft to prepare for the night. Just as Blue and Gold was sung [about to be sung], the fireworks started going off. The fireworks could be clerly heard in Bancroft and poor plebes could not see them.</p>

<p>He comments that new commandant is, at first impression, a significant improvement over the previous one. He has been very involved w/ plebe summer and has made an effort to acknowledge the work of the detailers.</p>

<p>Day 8 [or so] and counting.</p>

<p>Enjoy those telephone calls. Buy a digital recorder to record the call and listen toit over and over again.</p>

16

<p>I have also been hearing postive comments about the new Commadant, with visits to the training rotations, Kings Hall and Bancroft, and his communication with the Mids. Great to hear. </p>

<p>So who was it....???
Will cancel out 1. Parents would be sitting on the sidelines too busy taking photos and watching the parade pass them by then to try and beat them to it and miss the photo op.</p>

<p>Will cancel out 3. I have full faith and trust in the Mids. </p>

<ol>
<li> Final Answer. Because no way it is 1 or 3.</li>
</ol>

<p>
[quote]
proceeded to bump the Midn. leader

[/quote]

:eek:
Sure as heck hoping there is a little literary license being used with that one!</p>

<p>Too bad about the fireworks----
If I remember the story correctly, 2010 got to watch "half" of them - the other half were "green" and they did not "rate" the green ones, so had to keep their heads buried.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Were not to be "startled" awake in the morning. That is, no artificially abrupt noises such as banging of garbage can, horns, whistles, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To this day the most vivid memories of plebe summer that I have were when we were "startled" awake. The sound of a shower rod being thrown on the ground still makes the hair on my back stand up.</p>

<p>----Much to our dismay, the shower rod was outlawed for 2010</p>

18

<p>No shower bar, but the whistle was almost as bad. And the air horn. Not fun itlstallion...you know ;).</p>

19

<p>Hmm...I'll have to ask my Plebe about the shower rods this Sunday. She mentioned them with....no, "fondness" isn't the right word.....anyway, she certainly remembered them from NASS!</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
No shower bar, but the whistle was almost as bad. And the air horn. Not fun itlstallion...you know .

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How about the guitar?... 2010 was definitely "startled" awake, but for some reason they said no shower rods. Didn't really make much sense to me.</p>