<p>Sorry, should have made myself more clear. I definately did not mean that someone who has to leave due to medical problems (ie eyesight, etc) should have to repay. I was thinking more along the lines of those who are forced to leave due to positive drug tests and those type of issues. Not buyers regret, which is unfortunate, but definately needs to be allowed.</p>
<p>I gotcha kp2001 - yeah the drug issue bothers me also; but even here I have empathy for these families and the trials they must be going through as a result.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This should be left between the PC's and their families. These are very personal and private matters and should not be for public comment.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not so sure. Ignoring it makes it seem like the academy is hiding something. </p>
<p>And no one is naming any names, but even if they were, this is not an official source, just some web site in cyber space. </p>
<p>Posting that "x (number) plebes were dis-enrolled for y" (reasons) could be helpful to others.</p>
<p>I say, publish it on the front page of the USMMA web site.</p>
<p>Perhaps others will learn from their mistakes.</p>
<p>Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.</p>
<p>The worst part is that there are now 8 recent (former) candidates who lost their spot to one of those who were accepted but are now dis-enrolled.</p>
<p>Sorry</p>
<p>The line starts at the front</p>
<p>Those at or near end of it</p>
<p>are destined to a
difficult situation</p>
<p>This is where you get lucky
or not</p>
<p>Those who leave for whatever reason
are kids who werent ready</p>
<p>nuff said</p>
<p>I am going to be tacky here...Carrol O connor is not an example for me...yuk..and read the bio...what does it mean that he was rejected from the Navy...??and then went to the mma academy..should we be proud of that...>??</p>
<p>not proud no</p>
<p>just an example</p>
<p>he left
he became a seaman
served lowly but served</p>
<p>during war
most never do</p>
<p>but in the end</p>
<p>he had something to contribute to culture
if not society</p>
<p>just saying
a nomination doesnt mean you are ready</p>
<p>dropping out
doesnt mean you are a thief
or a fool</p>
<p>let these once candidates go
move forward</p>
<p>(Long. Sorry).
I have the utmost respect that each of these kids has earned the right to be here. I have followed so many of them in photos: watching as they have heads shaved, memorize from the Bearings Book, get injections, run distances, sweat, practice drill, observe rules at meals, study navigation, sweat more, jump in orange(Gumby) suits, survive PT(initially), endure PT, thrive in PT, swim, tug, race, sweat even more. </p>
<p>It is a stamina test--physically, mentally, academically. Not for just Indoc, nor for just the first month (has it only/already been that long?), nor for 4 years -- but maybe 9-12 YEARS (including active duty or industry). Some will not make it. But I hope each one will. I will be thrilled with each victory, and I will be saddened by each loss.</p>
<p>I compare these kids with the ones who have signed up for public colleges, as many have done (and as I did). their challenges and determination are FAR above what the entering freshmen have chosen to pursue. </p>
<p>The opportunities these kids will have are amazing... And I'm still grappling with understanding the breadth of that horizon. It's disappointing for any to put that future at risk. But it happens. This race will not be finished by them all. { USMA threads speak of this as well, although none of ours has disenrolled due to accidental discharge of a firearm (Big No-No). MANY of these forums echo the wisdom that is2day4him shares "Be here because it is what YOU want to do. Not what your parents want you to do"). } </p>
<p>Being able to take the challenges that face them, and to frame them in a productive manner -- persevering through difficulties -- is a key objective of the academies. Some choose a productive, but alternate, path. I am always encouraged by LFWBdad’s perspective… And I support usmmakp2010dad’s call for some sensitivity on the issue as well.</p>
<p>Those who finish, will be tempered as steel. Those who do not, will have an important life lesson—hopefully they will learn from it. My wee bit of wisdom tells me that "Everyone has the right to be wrong". Although I am saddened by the missed opportunity for them, those kids earned the right. THey are dealing with the consequences ... I'm not asking for a refund. But I would hope those 'near-miss' candidates would be individually contacted and asked to consider reapplying.</p>
<p>small point Zonker - they have not "earned the right" - they earned the opportunty, and each will make, or not make the best of it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
dropping out
doesnt mean you are a thief
or a fool</p>
<p>let these once candidates go
move forward
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...and ignore the reasons they dropped out so others can repeat them. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I disagree, I hope my son learns not to make the mistakes others have made before him. Reading about how some plebes dropped out/dis-enrolled can provide a valuable life lesson to the next group.</p>
<p>Life is not all about learning "what to do", it is also about learning "what not to do".</p>
<p>Unless you knew her, don't say something like that. People make mistakes. I knew both P/Cs who were kicked out for drugs and I believe they should have been allowed to stay. One of them even stated what he had done in the past on his DODMERB, so he was following the academy's honor code. I just feel if you had known them personally, you would have elected them to stay.</p>
<p>2011midshipman:</p>
<p>They should not have been allowed to stay. They did not get kicked out for stating they had done drugs in the past. They were kicked out because they popped positive on a drug test. I'm going to assume that it was for marijuana and I will now speak about the drug testing system: In order to pop positive on a urine drug screen one has to have recently, as in within a few days, have smoked marijuana. One cannot test positive if they have been around people who have smoked. There is a lower limit on the test for it to be positive and that lower limit is not zero. The academy uses a urine drug screen, now if they had used a hair sample it would be more sensitive.</p>
<p>So what I am saying is that the people who were kicked out for drug use had most likely used drugs within the last few days, maybe a week, before reporting to Kings Point. Sorry, drug use is illegal and therefore the Academy did the right thing in letting them go home.</p>
<p>
[quote]
People make mistakes.
[/quote]
Yes, they do. Using drugs just before reporting to the academy was a BIG one.</p>
<p>Beware Be Warned</p>
<p>Take it from CG licensed master
Dept of Transportation wont accept excuses</p>
<p>Politically, whatever you think of pot doesnt matter
Drug use is just not tolerated anymore
With any Coast Guard License, random testing is likely
My friend LOST Masters ticket for ONE pot smoking night
He has spent past FIVE YEARS working to get it back</p>
<p>Its been a LONG trip back to get back a license he had for 20 years
A VERY BIG MISTAKE</p>
<p>You can add post-accident and pre-employment testing to the periodic random drug tests you will be subjected to. If you think "I won't get caught" or there's a way around these tests; you better think again. By the way you can also be tested at anytime if there is "reasonable suspicion" of drug use.</p>
<p>Most major corporations and many others are the same.
Many going with short-term tests (urine/etc), and longer-term(hair) tests. The hair tests want 1 inch of hair (1 cubic inch -- 1 inch length from a 1 inch square). Doesn't faze the guys much, by my wife says women hate that... since it often changes a hairstyle.</p>
<p>Looking at the pictures I said ... "But, none of them have an inch of hair on their whole head!"</p>
<p>She only said "It doesn't have to come from the head."
Oh. :confused:
<pause>
<pause>
<pause>
OH . ;)
<pause>
<pause>
<pause>
OH !!! :( (yucko) bleah!</pause></pause></pause></pause></pause></pause></p>
<p>Don't forget that drug use is not only against the Academy's rules, but can also present problems with the USCG and the Navy. A positive drug test can affect your ability to go to sea, commission in the Navy and receipt of your license upon graduation. Is it necessarily fair? No, but that's the way it is. </p>
<p>When you apply to KP, you are made aware of the drug policy and it is clearly stated that you are subject to testing. Most (99%) of candidates know they are going to KP at least two months ahead of time. That's ample time and warning to stay clean. Also, some mids figure that once they go through the Academy's drug testing before sea year, that they are now "free". Not so. I was drug tested three times during my first sea year, twice during my ship's COI renewal (two different ships) and once after a minor accident that I witnessed. </p>
<p>It is sad when anyone gets booted out of here, but most times I have found that it was brought upon themselves.</p>
<p>I will just give my 2 cents about plebes dropping out, and anyone who drops out for that matter. Out of my last 3 years at KP, indoc was by far, the absolute easiest part of the entire experience. In the past 3 years, I have seen a dramatic decrease in the physical difficulty of indoc, to the point where i find it offensive that any candidate would show up here lacking the ability to complete indoc. Physically, it is not that difficult. If anyone has played any varsity sports, they will find that it is not that hard at all. Sure, it was an extremely lonely time, missing family and friends, but thats part of growing up. No one said it would be easy, and to mourne the loss of those who couldnt make it seems to be a waste of time. Yeah, I have lost a few of my best friends to this place, but anyone who fails or who quits does not deserve to be here. We are supposed to be the leaders of tomorrow, and anything less than the best is a shame. Not to mention, anyone who goes active duty (me) want only the top preformers at their side because anyone else is just extra weight and a bullet magnet.</p>
<p>I think hes right</p>
<p>Do it or dont</p>
<p>Shape up or ship out</p>
<p>Reality is
Not everyone is cut out for KP
or anyplace for that matter</p>
<p>If the plebes make it through,
theyll get to recognition and
become part of regiment</p>
<p>If not
theyll need start again somewhere else</p>
<p>KP is a single elimination situation
as it should be</p>
<p>Actually, KP2001--you are wrong!</p>
<p>I have been collecting drug screens for a living (among other things) for about 10 years and it takes AT LEAST one month to clear marijuana from your system on a routine DOT drug screen. (DOT stands for department of transportation, which is the standard the labs use.) Other illicit drugs are cleared in less time. (I'm not going to tell you how long, on purpose.) </p>
<p>There are also many different types of drugs screens; different drugs, different thresholds and different methods of collection. </p>
<p>My point is this: this individual could have smoked marijuana as a civilian and tested positive as a Plebe Candidate. They could not, however, done cocaine, heroin, ecstacy, qualudes or angel dust. That is just fact, not opinion. </p>
<p>I am totally against illicit drug use of any kind. However, the question remains: should Plebe Candidates be tested after one month or before? (Presently, they are tested before.)</p>
<p>If the Academy waited the one month period, then the only way a Plebe Candidate could test positive, would be if he/she used illicit drugs while at the Academy.</p>
<p>This should make for some interesting comments.</p>
<p>I think this is a matter of what you really want. All the canidates know they will be tested so if the academy is what they really wanted they would have stayed away from drugs for months or years! Not wanting to chance being tested positive. </p>
<p>My kid would not even water ski the summer before going because of fear he 'might' injure himself. But then again my kid wanted the academy more than anything! In life, we all have to make choices and look ahead more than a month or two.</p>