Pledging for a frat

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
21

<p>laurstar07 - it's rude an ignorant to have fraternities based on SKIN COLOR. I hear that they let whites in, though I've never seen this to be true. Point being, it's bigotry no matter what shade of melanin you have. If there was a frat that didn't let blacks in just imagine the reaction! </p>

<p>If I was a minority I would be enraged at affirmative action becoming a crutch, **** THAT! 'You're too stupid to succeed on your own, so heres a handout. Welcome to college even though we had to turn down more qualified applicants'</p>

<p>GET OVER IT. My white ancestors suffered far greater than a few centuries of slavery anyway. One people, one struggle, racism in any form is sick be it the KKK or affirmative action policies it is still SICK.</p>

22

<p>^Amen, brothuh</p>

<p>I wish AA was based on socio-economic status rather than ancestry. And btw, not all minorities get AA, just the ones who aren't as successful (native americans, africans, hispanics). </p>

<p>Wait, so someone said sorority hazing is not as intense...is this true? what kinds of hazing goes on in Cornell sororities?</p>

23

<p>PanHel sororities generally stick to their no-hazing policy and pledging consists largely of partying and being showered in gifts. I see AEPhi was written up for a violation (see Hazing.Cornell.Edu</a>), but other than that, there haven't been any recent substantiated reports.</p>

<p>I have it on good authority that aKDPhi, the larger of the two Asian sororities, has done some ridiculous things in the name of pledging -- not necessarily anything violent, but hierarchy-based impositions and degrading activities that non-Asians probably wouldn't put up with. Panhel and MGLC are different (with a lot of variation within each organization), whether for better or for worse.</p>

24

<p>Hello. A report came in to us, and it doesn't matter from whom it came. I've read the thread twice, up to this point.</p>

<p>Let's try an experiment here:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Stay on topic: fraternities, hazing pf pledges (particularly, debunking it) and balancing time commitments, specific to Cornell </p></li>
<li><p>For more general posts on Greek Life, go to CC's section with many threads on these topics, but not specifically Cornell.</p></li>
<li><p>I'm going to weigh in here on the ethnicity/tribal etc. debate that flared up in the middle of this thread. Skip over if that's of no interest to you.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Some fraternities are called "Jewish" around campus because programs, some food choices, and charitable fund raisers might go to Jewish causes as well as for groups of needy people from all groups around the globe. Mostly Jewish students are attracted to this, but some Jewish fraternities today may welcome others to join who can get behind the program and enjoy living around lots of other Jewish kids.</p>

<p>Other fraternities have no Jewish content at all, yet attract a lot of Jewish kids anyway, so those too get called "Jewish" informally by other students on a campus. I imagine it's a bit confusing and requires research to know which kind of "Jewish" fraternity it is. Perhaps other "ethnic" fraternities have similar structures, where the purpose and themes are ethnic, but membership is available. I don't know, but that's worth finding out. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Evidently, it is fine to form and maintain some historic fraternities with strong ethnic emphasis, in the opinion of your school's administration and trustees. Anyone is free to state their personal opinion that that's tribal, irrelevant or disagreeable, too. </p></li>
<li><p>Nothing so far on this thread has been "racist" which would certainly violate Terms of Service and would result in immediate infractions of posters and deletions of posts. Respectful exchanges of opinion are welcome always, and this thread remains respectful. </p></li>
<li><p>Our TOS also prohibits "ethnic slurs." I havent' read any above. When people didn't know something, they admitted they didn't know; very cool. One word, however: if you mean to type "Italian" "Greek" or "Asian" just continue to use these beautiful words on site here. Nicknames for ethnic groups mean different things to different people, and none of us really owns what a word means..whether it's humorous, non-offensive, and so on is also a matter of opinion, and there are histories behind some words that your generation wants to leave behind. On CC, choose the most respectful terms possible, because your point is to communicate with others. </p></li>
<li><p>There is a huge thread debating the merits of Affirmative Action, bringing in the economic versus skin-color issues as well. That's a relevant place to debate Affirmative Action, and read many thoughts on an important issue. I'm not deleting ANY of the above posts, because all stayed within Terms of Service. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>SUMMARY: there is nothing in the thread so far that violates Terms of Service in terms of race and ethnicity, and I am confident it can stay that way. Try to post relevant to the OP's thread topic.</p>

25

<p>beansaguscheese: i was just upset by the fact that he labeled those kinds of frats as tribal.</p>

<p>and p.s. i didnt report that post</p>

26

<p>There is NOTHING wrong with reporting a post, and not saying who did. In fact, the Moderator Team would rather people report posts so we can come check out a thread, than try to do battle yourself to rein in someone who stepped out-of-bounds. </p>

<p>If you think something MIGHT be violating Terms of Service, just hit the "Report Problem Post." We investigate every report, and if action is warranted, we take it. No detriment to report when someone's not sure if it's gone or going over-the-line!</p>

<p>We moderate according to Terms of Service, that thingie everyone checked when creating an account. To review it, click on FAQ above, then to TOS.</p>

<p>We moderate to keep member discussions free-flowing, on-topic and respectful.</p>

27

<p>Oh crap hope I didn't say anything offensive...whatever, just my opinion</p>

<p>Thanks sjar. I think I can deal with being showered in gifts and partying, lol...why are the Asian fraternities harsher? I'm south asian but I wouldn't join a sorority based on ethinicity...I think as a transfer student though, a sorority would be a great way to meet people</p>

28

<p>
[quote]
wow dontno. way to be really racist and offensive. calling jewish, hispanic, and black frats TRIBAL?!? talk about being rude and ignorant. this is 2008. wake up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes I'm being so racist because I think membership to any club (frat, college, country club, etc...) should be based on the values or merits on an individual person and NOT their ethnic make-up (sarcasm alert). That is the complete opposite of racism!!!</p>

<p>Forming groups based almsot entirely upon race or ethnicity (Jewish frats really have nothing to do w/ religion) is ethnocentric tribalism. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Some fraternities are called "Jewish" around campus because programs, some food choices, and charitable fund raisers might go to Jewish causes as well as for groups of needy people from all groups around the globe.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Focusing one's charity or outreach work on a certain ethnic group that matches one's own ethnicity is also tribalism. Black and Hispanic frats probably engage in similar behavior.</p>

<p>And while some frats have lots of WASPs, they're not explicitly "WASP" frats. It's not part of the official frat charter, unlike Jewish or black frats. And let's be honest: Black frats have no white members and Jewish frats have no non-Jewish members. Come on. They're not explicitly forbidden, but no white person is going to pledge Alpha Sigma Alpha (is that the name?).</p>

<p>
[quote]
And do we really want a house full of guidos? I respectively decline lol

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know this was kind of said in jest, but no one even flinched on this statement!! Imagine inserting "blacks from the ghetto" or "Mexicans" or "Jews from NYC" for guidos. Imagine how that would sound. Saying any of these statements is utterly wrong, yet you said it without anyone even noticing or yourself hesitating probably.</p>

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<p>Actually the existence of Jewish, Latino, Asian, Black and other ethnically-based fraternites came about because of the refusal of traditionally white houses to accept these people. First it was Jewish people, as they were kept out of the Ivys, then it was other minorities as they started attending college.
These houses to accept other people, just as other traditionally white houses accept them, but a brotherhood or sisterhood is all about being around people like you. That is what a fraternity or sorority is, a social club of like-minded people, and usually skin color does does have an affect on that. </p>

<p>Also, I believe stargazer and Beanwhatevs, should actually study affirmative action(non-partisan studies) before putting out such a strong opinion on how "minorities" should feel. Your comments reflect the conservative opinions out there that wish to cripple minorities in ever way. I suggest reading material on objective studies done by sociologists and not quote people from CC. </p>

<p>Also, never compare suffering or oppression. Everyone has suffered and we learn from that not to argue and see who suffered the worst, but to see how we can prevent people from suffering in the future. </p>

<p>I appreciate your comments laurastar07, from someone actually in Greek life. </p>

<p>And the moderater is right, a lot of fraternities and sororities are Jewish or ethnic-traditionally and some just attract people of that ethnicity, but all of them accept and are more than happy to accept other people. I know for the Black Greek life, the Alphas were founded at Cornell 1906(?) because Black men were excluded from the fraternities on campus and the opportunities they offered. Were they just supposed to sit there and wait for white people to let them in? No. They took the initiative to create their own great fraternity, that has many notable alums and an international membership, spanning even to East Asia. Are they supposed to abolish the organization, now because you think they are too "tribal"? Are they supposed to get rid of all great, ground-breaking history that encouraged other groups to this day to create their own Greek organizations, from Christian fraternities to a Southeast Asian sorority? No. That's like Howard University, an HBCU(Historically Black College/University), shutting its historical doors just because there are Black people in UMD College Park. </p>

<p>Respect other people's history, please. Because even though there were no terms violated on this thread, paytuition, as a minority student at Cornell I was greatly offended by some of the comments made.</p>

30

<p>"And while some frats have lots of WASPs, they're not explicitly "WASP" frats. It's not part of the official frat charter, unlike Jewish or black frats. And let's be honest: Black frats have no white members and Jewish frats have no non-Jewish members. Come on. They're not explicitly forbidden, but no white person is going to pledge Alpha Sigma Alpha (is that the name?)."
I don't know the code to properly quote, but...
Umm..do you go to Cornell, or do you even go to college? All the "Jewish" houses, male and female, have non-Jewish people, ALL OF THEM! And there aren't even enough members of the minority ones anyway for them to have "white" members, but they all do have people of other ethnicities in them as well. Nationwide, you see a lot more white people in Black fraternities and sororities. Just google it or facebook them names...if you care that much...</p>

<p>But please don't talk about what you don't know, dontno. (Pun intended)</p>

31

<p>
[quote]
Also, I believe stargazer and Beanwhatevs, should actually study affirmative action(non-partisan studies) before putting out such a strong opinion on how "minorities" should feel. Your comments reflect the conservative opinions out there that wish to cripple minorities in ever way.

[/quote]
I am a minority. My parents moved to the U.S from a 3rd World country in their teens. </p>

<p>I admit I don't know too much about AA, but I don't think skin color should play a part in college admissions. Amherst College used to use AA based on skin color, now on economic status, because they discovered the average African-American Amherst student came from a wealthier family than the average white Amherst kid. So they switched to Socio-economic status, because that's what makes sense. I agree.</p>

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<p>Again, I urge you to read up on the real findings of studies done on that decision and other like it, studies done on socioeconomic status and its relation to race, and also studies on AA. And obviously I was talking about Bean's comment since he was the only one who mentioned "how minorities should feel", you just blindly cosigned it. But let me not turn this into an AA argument. If you want to continue it more you can PM me!</p>

33

<p>I didn't blindly cosign it, I agreed with it. </p>

<p>Yes, minorities are often poorer. If AA was done on basis of economic status, then poor black/hispanic kids would get the help they need. The way it is now, poor whites/asians get a raw deal, and rich URMs get a boost. If you're trying to say AA isn't really effective in its aims, then I agree with you. But if you think its fair that certain races get a little something extra based on melanin, I don't agree. It's funny, 'cause the descendants of African immigrants (like our pres-elect) are very successful in this country, and African-Americans are not...skin color doesn't determine success, but economic status usually does. Poor people deserve to be helped, not just dark poor people. Just my opinion.</p>

34

<p>Can we keep the conversation a little frattier? There are places to discuss AA. This is not one of them.</p>

<p>
[quote]
: Black frats have no white members and Jewish frats have no non-Jewish members. Come on. They're not explicitly forbidden, but no white person is going to pledge Alpha Sigma Alpha (is that the name?).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have Asian and Christian friends in SDT. I've met the President of one of the Asian fraternities who happens to be Indian (and the only non-East Asian brother). At another school I was looking at I would have likely joined a nationally Jewish fraternity myself, just because knew and liked a lot of the brothers. Things like this aren't too uncommon.</p>

<p>But again, this is a thread about fraternities, not affirmative action.</p>

35

<p>Can we please NOT turn this into an affirmative action debate!!! There are enough of them</p>

<p>@ Trackbabi:</p>

<p>Did you read my initial post? I'm not denying anything you wrote regarding the history of black/Jewish/ etc frats. I think those groups were assuredly necessary back when they were originally founded. It made perfect sense. I'm also sympathetic to the fact that black kids want to largely hang out with other black kids.</p>

<p>BUT, I do not condone such behavior and such ethnic grouping in 2008. I don't condone largely white frats not giving a black pledge enough of a chance during rush or simply the existence of OFFICIALLY black frats, no matter if they have a token white perosn or not. </p>

<p>
[quote]
a brotherhood or sisterhood is all about being around people like you. That is what a fraternity or sorority is, a social club of like-minded people,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So you're offended by my statements that I view you as an individual and not simply a member of a collective. God forbid I don't define people almost entirely on the basis of their ethnicity (sarcasm)! I love how people, mostly liberal minorities like yourself, are offended that those like me advocate individualism. I see you as an individual, while you cling to being identified as a member of a group and I'm the racist and the offensive one!</p>

<p>And sereiously, the dontno joke is really old. I never expected to post more than once or twice on this forum, so I picked the first thing that popped into my head.</p>

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<p>I honestly dont think you go to school sometimes dontno. Ur assertions are blatantly incorrect. I know (or know of) nonJewish people in every frat. That was a really stupid comment and ur absolutely incorrect. </p>

<p>Ur really pushing buttons too. They created these multicultural frats because the white frats WOULDN'T LET THEM IN! Stop being such a dick about it. They are famous frats with huge histories...how can you just shut them down? That's like shutting down historically black colleges by saying they aren't needed anymore. They have such huge histories and lineages that they deserve to survive as well. It's not like it's hurting the Greek system. A minority can rush a normal house if they want. That's their choice, not yours!</p>

<p>I really do think this thread needs to be shut down. It's gotten completely out of control. I didn't report it but I wish I had been the one. Do these people even go to Cornell? These comments are horrible.</p>

37

<p>And don't worry, girl pledging is really easy and fun. There are 4 times as many frats as sororities and they all want to party so pledging is a lot of mixers and parties. You do also get lots of gifts (mostly from bigs). All my friends who rushed hated rush but loovvved pledging. (For sororities)</p>

<p>Don't let these stupid comments deter anyone from rushing "jewish" frats. SAE and Lambda Chi are ABSOLUTELY not Jewish, and the ones that are Jewish often let nonJews in. That comment was idiotic and he obviously isn't in the Greek system. (ps the same goes with Jewish sororities). I mean honestly...do u think they ask you while your rushing if ur Jewish or not? Never ever happened to me and I stopped by most of the Jewish houses to check them out. Have you even rushed?</p>

<p>Please can people who are actually IN the greek system be replying on this thread. These kids are not asking questions about the Greek system in order to get into some stupid AA fight. Start another thread. Seriously.</p>

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<p>Your posts are incoherent. I love how I'm being offensive b/c I think we shouldn't be segregating people according to ethnicity or race!!!</p>

<p>And I have never even mentioned a frat, like SAE, by name. I have no idea what you're tlaking about. I never referred to it as a Jewish or non-Jewish frat. When I say Jewish frat I mean officially Jewish frats like sammy.</p>

<p>I honestly think you don't read my posts. Here's an exmaple:</p>

<p>You said: </p>

<p>
[quote]
They created these multicultural frats because the white frats WOULDN'T LET THEM IN! Stop being such a dick about it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I said in the previous post!!!!: Sounds like I was being understanding about the original motive of these ethnic frats, huh?!?!</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think those groups were assuredly necessary back when they were originally founded. It made perfect sense. I'm also sympathetic to the fact that black kids want to largely hang out with other black kids.</p>

<p>BUT, I do not condone such behavior and such ethnic grouping in 2008.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>O oops I'm sorry about that, I accidentally put your name in where I meant others like DaFunk. I just got really aggravated n mistakenly kept writing your name instead of others...sorry bout that. When I look back I think that might have happened b/c you were the last poster before I typed the message out. Obviously you can tell by the tone of my post I was pretty irritated by some of the assertions so just ignore the ones that aren't relevant to you n I apologize for implicating u in them. Ya, I get a bit incoherent when I get really annoyed...it's a bad thing for me that you can't edit posts later haha</p>

<p>You did say things like this tho: "Focusing one's charity or outreach work on a certain ethnic group that matches one's own ethnicity is also tribalism. Black and Hispanic frats probably engage in similar behavior." How is this "tribalism" (I'm assuming in the negative usage)? If you mean they donate to certain charities because they have a strong feeling of identity and belonging to the group that charity helps, how is that a bad thing? Also that word offends people because it can be interpreted as a derogatory word. Just like how saying Obama's middle name could be seen as inflammatory even though it really is his middle name. Some words just don't look great when said because one can think they are laced with racism, even when they aren't.</p>

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<p>ok lets get this straight. dontno, this IS 2008, so the "jewish" fraternities and sororities DO accept members of different religions and races (just look at the members of those organizations...obviously you are blind to see that so PM me for a list of them if you are interested in learning a little bit). like someone said before, the reason why these Greek groups and universities (like Brandeis University...established as a "jewish" ivy after WWII [founded in 1948] because no IVY LEAGUE schools would let jews in) is because they werent being accepted by the seemingly exclusive organizations. they were founded as being a "jewish" fraternity because its founding members were EXCLUDED from the other organizations, so they took actions and decided to found their own. </p>

<p>with that aside, being in a jewish frat or sorority is a very rewarding experience (just like it is in any other one). again, you DONT HAVE TO BE JEWISH to join one! like i said before, they are considered nationally jewish because of its founding members. so if you are going to rush, PLEASE keep an open mind and dont just cut a house just because of what its nationally known for. that would be a stupid reason</p>

<p>so dontno, with your theory on tribalism in frats and sororities, could the WASP frats of the past be categorized as that as well? you are obviously NOT in the greek system, so stop making these comments on it. you have no idea about the logistics of what goes on other than what rumors you hear and the parties on the weekends.</p>