<p>One thing to consider – how is your son with spending money? Some people get entertainment value from spending as little as possible to get the most of their money (this mindset often fits engineers in jobs where they must design something of high quality within a tight cost constraint). Such a student may be able to significantly underspend the financial aid office’s budget in non-tuition items.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a relatively careless spender could easily overrun the budget.</p>
<p>Osakadar - wow you’re really selling SLO that sounds amazing. I’m anxious to visit it. Sounds like your son is really on the road to success and loves the program. I’m jealous. How hard was it for him to get accepted to the engineering program?</p>
<p>ucbalumnus - hmmm his spending is like me and the wife. I’ll admit we spend a lot. But we buy almost everything on sale. He’s sort of frugal to a degree. We rubbed off on him. No idea about him living in a coop that is an interesting idea. It just sucks that you can live in CA and there are so few opportunites for merit aid/scholoarships. At least when I went 12 years ago it was so cheap you didn’t have to worry about merit aid.</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO has a freshman profile here:
[Prospective</a> Students - Admissions - Cal Poly](<a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions)
<a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions;
<p>The detailed one lists engineering freshman for 2011 as having an average high school GPA of 3.94 (presumably calculated by the CSU GPA formula), ACT of 29, and SAT CR+M of 1299. List price cost of attendance is $23,488 for in-state undergraduates.</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO admits by major, so overall engineering profile may not be reflective of the more popular majors. Most about its admission criteria here:
[How</a> to Apply - Admissions - Cal Poly](<a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions)</p>
<p>Re: Berkeley Student Cooperative</p>
<p>Berkeley’s financial aid office gives [student</a> budgets](<a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/finaid/home/cost.htm]student”>http://students.berkeley.edu/finaid/home/cost.htm) showing residence halls costing $14,990 per academic year and off-campus room and board costing $9,896 per year. Berkeley Student Coop [rates</a> for room and board houses](<a href=“http://berkeleystudentcooperative.org/rates/40-academic-year-rates]rates”>http://berkeleystudentcooperative.org/rates/40-academic-year-rates) are $6,822 per academic year, or $3,074 less than the off-campus room and board estimate from the financial aid office.</p>
<p>There are cooperative houses at some other universities. See [url=<a href=“http://www.nasco.coop/]NASCO[/url”>http://www.nasco.coop/]NASCO[/url</a>].</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, thanks for posting the Cal Poly stats. You really know your stuff!</p>
<p>santookie, Cal Poly is unusual in that they are primarily stats and course load oriented. No rec letters, no essays, no SAT 2 requirements, none of that. However, they are very selective. GPA, test scores and what classes you took. They like to see EC’s on a transcript. For example my kid had 4 years or marching band, jazz band, concert band, drum line , etc. He devoured the music program at his HS. My kid was in the top 25% or higher of all applicants. So, he got in early in the RD process. I believe in my kid’s year the stats were higher than today. For my kid’s entering class, I think the average GPA was 4.01 and the ACT score was 31. As ucbalumnus stated it is lower now at 3.94 and an ACT of 29.</p>
<p>Your son is an absolute fit for Cal Poly with his GPA and ACT. Don’t even bother to send in the SAT scores. A 33 ACT is his golden ticket. The school prefers the ACT and states that on their web site.</p>
<p>Osakadad - hehe that is very good to hear. Son actually has some amazing ECs. He taught himself how to play the piano and guitar. He actually taught an after school program at my wifes school his freshman year to 3rd-5th graders. It was rewarding for him, but at the same time after school programs and clubs eventually became an issue. Cal Poly is definitely on the list. Now I wish I had sent one of the free scores there. I guess I’ll send one of the next one we take that way. Yeah that full COA at SLO is a little steep and merit aid I’m sure is nonexistent. Guess after first year we can look into off campus housing if he goes there.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus - You’re like the almanac of California college education! Man Co-Ops sound like the way to go if your trying to save. That seems like it would make Berkeley much more affordable! But just like you said isn’t it hard to do that your freshman year? You really have to figure all that stuff out really early on I would assume. I’ve been to Berkeley tons my brother in law lived in this crack den of an apartment and he was paying like 900 dollars and he was sleeping in the living room. I thought that was crazy. Other thing I’m thinking now is it seems like Poly would be a lot easier to get into. hmmmm</p>
<p>Guess I just have to apply to all and the few out of state options and see what comes my way. crunch numbers. The Trinity University suggestion was interesting. I guess from forums I notice they only ABET certified for Engineering Science, but the yearly design class and projects they do sounds very amazing. Someone suggested Illinois Institute of Technology I’m going to research that one now! Thank you everyone for your help. Keep the suggestions coming I need more for my list.</p>
<p>If a school is ABET accredited only for general engineering or engineering science, check the course catalog to see what the degree program entails. In some schools, there are sufficient courses to allow a specialization in some of the other traditional branches like electrical or mechanical, though the selection of such specializations may not be as big as at a larger school with has separate degree programs for each specialization (although even at larger schools, there is some variation, such as aerospace engineering and naval architecture being their own departments versus subareas of mechanical engineering).</p>
<p>BSC co-ops are not that easy to get into the smaller, cleaner, quieter, and often considered more desirable houses as a new member (put in the application early, perhaps even now if they will let you, to get the earliest spot on the waiting list). The easiest houses to get into appear to be the large ones (Casa Zimbabwe and Cloyne), the all-women houses (Sherman and Hoyt), and the LGBTQ theme house (Wilde, although being LGBTQ is not required).</p>
<p>One problem that has occasionally surfaced in the past is that one of the bigger houses attracts too many drug users, often eventually resulting in forced turnover (everyone must move to a different house next semester) or closure of the house when the problem gets too obvious (so find out if any houses have such a problem before applying).</p>
<p>The science and engineering areas at Berkeley are mostly on the northeast side of campus, so convenience to that may be a consideration in selecting housing.</p>
<p>Note that the Berkeley residence hall [url=<a href=“http://www.housing.berkeley.edu/livingatcal/rates.html]rates[/url”>http://www.housing.berkeley.edu/livingatcal/rates.html]rates[/url</a>] vary by hall and room type. The financial aid office budget appears to assume a double room in Unit 1, 2, or 3. Triple rooms in the same halls are $2,339 less per academic year, but the rooms in those halls are quite small (bunk beds are required for triples there).</p>
<p>Perhaps those more familiar with Cal Poly SLO and other schools can help in finding ways to go under-official-financial-aid-budget in terms of housing and other non-tuition costs.</p>
<p>I ran the idea of co-ops by the wife. Haha she laughed at me and said “hell no!”. I guess that recent controversy over how a student died at one is still running through her mind. I remember they said a lot of them have very rowdy tenants and they are havens for drinking and drugs. Is that all of them?</p>
<p>Any other out of state science schools I should be looking at with full tuition scholarships? Lets assume he does physics only would that open our options up a lot more?</p>
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<p>No. But sometimes one of the larger houses attracts a critical mass of drug users and gets into trouble in this manner. That appears to be one of the incidents. Previous incidents have resulted in houses being closed or forced turnover. Smaller houses tend not to have this problem.</p>
<p>As far as drinking (alcohol) goes, that goes on almost everywhere (well, maybe not so much at BYU), despite many college students being underage (forbiddenness often increases temptation). Fraternities may be the wettest parts of campus, though.</p>
<p>Physics may open up some additional possibilities, but it is a less common major than engineering, so strong physics programs may not be that common. Evaluating physics degree programs requires more individual inspection of courses and curricula, since there is not an equivalent of ABET for engineering that accredits physics degree programs in the US. However, you can look at the description of criteria at the [UK</a> based Institute of Physics](<a href=“http://www.iop.org/education/higher_education/accreditation/page_43310.html]UK”>http://www.iop.org/education/higher_education/accreditation/page_43310.html) to get an idea of what a good physics degree program should include.</p>
<p>It does appear that Truman State and University of Minnesota (Morris) (list price $22,000 per year, no out of state surcharge) have physics major degree programs with the expected courses available (junior/senior level courses in advanced mechanics, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, and statistical/thermal physics).</p>
<p>But so do San Jose State, Stanford, and Berkeley.</p>
<p>So I saw this about Cal Poly SLO and my mouth dropped. How are the things beyond tuition typically so expensive. Is it because it is a touristy area?</p>
<p>[Cal</a> Poly Financial Aid - Cost of Attendance](<a href=“http://financialaid.calpoly.edu/_finaid/coa1112.html]Cal”>http://financialaid.calpoly.edu/_finaid/coa1112.html)</p>
<p>I actually think San Jose State or CC will probably be our backup. U of MN Morris isn’t that sort of a public LAC?</p>
<p>Ucbalumnus not to be lazy but you know if any of the MN schools have good merit aid? for OOS? I know Truman has some automatic scholarships. We signed up and we’ve been receiving tons of mail from them as of late. I think we actually sent them one of his test scores. But Kirksville is extremely middle of no where. I attempted to figure out airfare there just for kicks. It was very interesting.</p>
<p>Yes, Morris is a public LAC with about 2,000 students.</p>
<p>No idea what merit scholarships the Minnesota schools (Twin Cities and Morris) offer to out of state students, though they don’t seem to be known for that like Alabama’s generous offers are.</p>
<p>Cal Poly’s room and board estimate appears to be based on its rates for a double room and meal plan in its dorms. A triple room is about $1,200 less. You may have to do more research to find off-campus housing costs. The transportation and personal/misc categories can be greatly variable due to student situation and frugalness/spendiness.</p>
<p>@santookie – First, don’t be taken aback by the cost of college. It is what it is and the only thing we can do about it if we wish to have our kids educated is to manage the process. SLO is no more expensive than where you live right now. It may actually be cheaper. On campus housing is quite reasonable and do not forget, it includes room and a meal plan. If you compare the housing at Cal Poly to UCLA or UC Berkeley it is thousands of dollars cheaper. I believe that overall if you look a pure costs, Cal Poly will be at least $10,000 - $12,000 less expensive annually compared to the UC’s. That is $50,000 or more cheaper total cost for graduation which will take at least 5 years unless your kid is brilliant, lucky and efficient enough to graduate in four years. Brilliant because the course load will require and average of 18 credits a quarter and he will have to actually pass all these classes with decent grades, lucky because your kid will be challenged to get all the right classes in the right sequence, and efficient because such a course load will require tremendous time management skills because he will still want to join clubs, do internships and co-op work experiences, and possibly study abroad.</p>
<p>So what can you do? First apply to as many local merit scholarships as possible. Rotary, Alumni associations, churches, etc., etc. Contact the school counselor and find out what info they have. Local scholarships are small, but every penny helps. Find if you can get you adjusted gross income below $73,000 (we absolutely could not). If you can, then you can get needs based aid big time from CA. Fill out the FAFSA and get loans. Have your son apply for work study, etc., etc. Other strategies were suggested to you by ucbalumnus – go to a CC for two years and get the GE’s out of the way and then transfer. If that is your path, remember that Cal Poly and certain other schools take in fewer transfer students than freshman straight from HS – [Prospective</a> Students - Admissions - Cal Poly](<a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions)</p>
<p>Take a look at this link and you’ll see that entering freshman from HS have a 37% chance of selection and transfers have about a 19% chance. ALSO, keep in mind that Cal Poly is one of those schools that will offer multiple opportunities for internships and co-ops. If you kid shows promise and is selected, like many are, he will get paid for these opportunities. My son was told by several of his seniors that the co-ops in particular pay serious money and often end in job offers. One student told my kid that it takes a lot of discipline to turn down some of the immediate offers of employment. Some start-ups and other companies have such urgency for Cal Poly skilled workers that the kids can’t turn down an offer and wind up not finishing school and take a job prior to graduation. How often this happens I am not sure, but my son told me that it is not that uncommon. As anecdotal as this appears, to me I am grateful to hear these stories as my goal for my son is that he will be prepared for life and an economically valuable career by Cal Poly. I have no desire for my son to spend years in college only to graduate with the distinction of being an unemployed “scholar” or worse yet having to find something completely different than his major to put food on the table. The other day, I went into a dealership to service my car and struck up a conversation in the showroom with a kid that was there selling cars while I waited. He had just graduated from UCLA with a degree in sociology and was lamenting the cost of his education and his position in life. His girlfriend on the other had had gone to Cal State Long Beach and was a marketing major and had multiple business related internships and was hired by one of the companies after graduation and was making more money than he was. Cal Poly is a bargain and if he graduates with an engineering degree and has a 3.00 GPA or higher – he’ll hopefully get a job paying at last $60,000 or more to start and he’ll be on his way. We gotta do this for our kids regardless of our fear of the cost. But that does not mean that we can’t manage the costs.</p>
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<p>Actually, Cal Poly and the more selective UCs likely have enough brilliant students that a large percentage graduate in 12 quarters or 8 semesters. Indeed, Berkeley’s 4 year graduation rate is around 70% (and engineering is not that much different from that). While Cal Poly’s 4 year graduation rate is only about 31%, Cal Poly’s heavy emphasis on “learning by doing” likely means that a large percentage of the students are graduating “late” (in calendar terms) because they are doing co-op jobs (which are paid), rather than taking more than 12 quarters of school.</p>
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<p>Cal Poly does allow students to file for leaves of absence (up to two up to a maximum of eight quarters) upon approval of their advisor. This allows returning to school in the same major without having to apply for competitive readmission. This may be an option for a student being recruited by a company for a longer term job prior to graduation – if approved, the student can take the job, see how it goes for a while (longer than a typical co-op job), while still having the option to return to school later (within the eight quarter / two year time limit) to complete the degree. If the company is a startup, it often takes less than that amount of time for at least some of the incentive stock options to vest, and/or get a better idea of how promising the company’s future is. In general, it is preferable to finish the degree, although extending the co-op job, if allowed and approved to return later with no hassle, and then returning to finish, is a perfectly reasonable route.</p>
<p>Of course, the catch is, how likely is approval to do what is effectively an extended co-op job? A student who may consider this type of thing may want to find out ahead of time.</p>
<p>[Leaves</a> of Absence - Office of the Registrar - Cal Poly](<a href=“http://www.ess.calpoly.edu/_records/stu_info/leaves_absence.htm]Leaves”>http://www.ess.calpoly.edu/_records/stu_info/leaves_absence.htm)</p>
<p>osakadad - unfortunately there is no way we’d be able to get our income anywhere near $73k. If we did we wouldn’t be able to pay the mortgage or that fantastic CA property tax (almost the costs of a decent used car). I understand your math and the savings part. But when you’re middle income in CA. I think its hard to see that kind of savings. Unless you had this very substantial savings to dip into in the first place. $22-24k a year is a bargain don’t get me wrong. But for most paying out of pocket is way beyond reach. Even for a heavily discounted state university. Plus in addition you do know that total costs to attend a community college is quite expensive now as well. Atleast in the city of SF. When I was attending community college it was exponentially cheaper. Even at that time classes were hard to get. I would hate to think how hard it is now at the CC, State or UC level.</p>
<p>I really would love to send my son somewhere in state. But there is no benefits for smart high achieving kids. You see places like Alabama where there hard work pays off. I really liked SLO! You sold me on it. I just have no idea how to get the money to work. Truthfully putting away $10-12k a year to pay for it while working for me and my wife is a us counting pennies and borrowing from my parents here and there.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information and suggestions. I’ll definitely have to look into U of MN Morris. I can always cross my finger and dream of places like Pitt and Alabama and see how things turn out. I actually met the Alabama recruiter last October at Canada College he was so nice and motivating. He told us to apply this summer after 4th July haha made me laugh in my head isn’t that ridiculously early.</p>
<p>Osakadad - One other thing bothered me about SLO. How hard it was to change majors, what happens if someone discovers that they do not like engineering, I hear they make it really hard to change majors.</p>
<p>I think you could get nearly a full ride to the University of New Mexico. You would qualify for both the Regents and Amigo Scholarship…about $29,000 total. Look at the scholarships for non-residents.</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Scholarships :: | The University of New Mexico](<a href=“http://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/index.html]Undergraduate”>http://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/index.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://admissions.unm.edu/cost-residency/index.html[/url]”>http://admissions.unm.edu/cost-residency/index.html</a></p>
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<p>Is it possible to move to a cheaper house (buy or rent)? If you don’t have any additional children, you won’t be constrained by public school district or school assignment issues when selecting a place to live, after your son goes to college.</p>
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<p>For what it is worth, [this</a> chart](<a href=“http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/unemployment/RDList2.asp?ST=CA]this”>http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/unemployment/RDList2.asp?ST=CA) lists the 2010 median income for California and by county:</p>
<p>California: $57,664
Alameda: $66,937
Contra Costa: $73,678
Los Angeles: $52,595
San Francisco: $70,883
San Mateo: $82,413
Santa Clara: $84,627</p>
<p>As far as changing major at Cal Poly goes, you may want to read this:
[Choosing/Changing</a> Majors - Career Services - Cal Poly](<a href=“http://www.careerservices.calpoly.edu/content/student/choose_change_major]Choosing/Changing”>http://www.careerservices.calpoly.edu/content/student/choose_change_major)</p>
<p>ucbalumus - we’re above middle income for CA as a whole. But for SF we’re on the lower spectrum. We don’t even live in the city we moved out about two years ago. Renting vs owning for us is basically the difference of property tax in our area. I mean $6k is a lot, but even witht he $6k its barely a dent in cost of university level education. We only have one car that is over 10 yrs old. I’m the only one that drives, son and wife still go to school in SF. If I moved anywhere besides East Bay (Oakland, Richmond, Antioch, Pittsburgh) Only places that have cheaper rent but exponentially higher crime. It’s actually worse since I made more money. The more I make the more I lose to taxes bills etc. Renting in SF is crazy, especially if your stuck there due to employment. You think teachers have lots of mobility in this job market? I have limited mobility with the government, but at the same time almost every agency has hiring freezes, beyond entry level positions or management ones that I do not qualify for. My skills unfortunately are not very transferable.</p>
<p>haystack - thanks for the suggestion. I actually had heard of the Amigo scholarship once or twice. I looked into that when I say the Western University Exchange thing were we get charged 1.5 times tuition at other universities. Not many of the universities were that great. But that does sound like it’d be good to look into. You have any friends or family that can shed light into how U of NM is?</p>
<p>PS Correction difference of property tax vs rent plus commute, time, etc. You’re right we could possibly move into a studio and rent our home, it’s near Genetech. I’ve always debated that. Maybe moving back in with my parents. But I bought a house to move out at the age of 30. Moving back brings a lot of issues as well.</p>
<p>Have you considered USC at all? They offer some full tuition (Trustee/Mork) merit scholarships for engineering students and if your S re-takes the SAT/ACT and improves his score, he could be in the running. You can see some stats on past scholarship recipients on the USC threads on CC.</p>